6/20/22 - iRetire4Him Show 64: Working After 60, Part 2

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the retirement reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma check us out online: retirementreformation.org, retiremen,reformation.org.

Wasn't it. The seven dwarves who sung high ho high ho is home from work we go? But really why do we leave our homes, our places of rest and relaxation. Why do we go to work? Well, most of us go because we love to work. Work gives us purpose work pays for things we love work provides for our family.

But now you're thinking I have a different perspective on my work. I'm over 60 and work has taken on a whole new role in my life. Welcome to iRetire4Him as today. Bruce Bruinsma I venture out on week two of three in a series on working after 60. Last week, we talked about having to work this week.

We'll cover wanting to work and next week we'll cover volunteering. Since we all know that retirement is a biblical, we hope this conversation helps you determine best how to serve your local community in the years. Following 60 Bruce, Bruinsma welcome back to iRetire4Him,

Bruce: Jim. It's good to be here in, in this middle segment of, of the three that we're doing hopefully will be as impactful as that first one was. I'm anxious as we jump into this conversation.

Jim: Yeah. It was a lot of fun, especially that middle segment on the last, the last podcast with Dr. Sharen Ford talking about what was that exercising our muscle of advocacy. I got, that's gonna be great. That's the show. If you missed last week, show number 63 of iRetire4Him, make sure you go back and listen to that.

All right, Bruce, since choosing to work is different than having to work, but it all means we have to leave our home to do that. What's difference between having to work and wanting to work?

Bruce: I think the underlying assumption in that question is that there is a significant difference and that one is harder or more painful or less pleasurable.

And the other one is less painful and more pleasure because you're making that decision. Now, I think one of the questions that it'd be worthwhile us discussing does it have to be that way. And I think last week we touched on some of that, but perhaps it worth now, does it have to be that way? And does it, I have to go to work is the, is the pain and the, the struggle and the depression and the, oh my gosh, do I have to get up today?

I don't think it has to be that way, but I think for many people it is. And yet when, in fact we don't have to, but yet choose to. There is an easier access to joy along with some freedom.

Jim: It's that level of intentionality, whether we have to work or whether we are wanting to work that level of intentionality, to know that God gave us that ability to work as a gift.

And that when we work, we have the opportunity to glorify our father and have an end to expand the kingdom right here on earth. What are some of the things that your friends give as examples for why they are choosing to work well past retirement age?

Bruce: You know, and I'll speak for myself first. Okay you know, it's simply that God has put into my heart and the hearts of many, a passion for a subject or a need or an issue that, that he has uniquely prepared us to speak into, to journey along with, to engage with. And it is, it is that passion that gets us up in the morning, even though our knees. And it takes a little bit longer to get to that first cup of coffee, but that is it's, it's an issue of the passion that he has put in us for a given set of circumstances or, or an issue. That's one.

Jim: All right. So you, you go to church, you're in a small group full of people that are, some are retired, some are not retired. Some are back to work, some are not back to work. How many of your friends have retired and stopped working? And then said, you know what, I'm going back to work. I need to work. I wanna work. How many of them, he got one example of a friend that said, Nope, I'm going back?

Bruce: Well, it's interesting if, if we had had this conversation, oh, let's say five years ago.

I would've said, eh, I don't think I know where many have said that. Now that's changing and it's changing for two reasons. Number one, the realization that nothing is not very meaningful and so doing nothing doesn't bring meaning and value. And so then they, they, then my, some of about five or six of my friends have looked back and said, where did I get the most joy in, in, in my activity?

And then it was actually in my job, my, my work that I did or work that now I've discovered that I can do. And, and so it's, it's. There are more people going back to work who don't have to, but choose to.

Jim: Well, and those people, all their wives got together. All your buddies, their wives got together and said, please, please, will you encourage my husband to go back to work? He's driving me crazy.

Bruce: Yeah, there, there is certainly there's there's that, as a matter of fact, I'll be doing a, a workshop on this coming Saturday that a good portion of it deals with that issue of, of creating new relationships in these new timeframes and these new circumstances. Yeah. And it's, that has a lot of complexity to it.

And sometime just simply getting out of the house. Now we were with a group of friends the other night, And I, and, and in one of the conversations the wife said, I can't tell you how excited I am. And gentleman's name is Jim happens to be he said, I am so happy that Jim has found something other than golf, that he can apply himself to where he is making a difference in the lives of others. And he's getting out of the house about 9:30 in the morning.

Jim: And that story could be repeated a million, well, probably 40 million times over, I think. Way too many retirement age people are leaving the workforce, Bruce, this is, this is from my perspective and I'm not quite there yet. I'm in my mid fifties.

And what I've seen is what happens to companies when the wisdom vault is left, open and spills out the front door, when people retire, what are people who are running these organizations, thinking, letting people retire. I. I would bet most of those people would take, you know, a lot of times people get forced out because they wait, make too much money.

I would bet they'd take a reduced salary just to stay. And how much better would the organization be if the, if those chronologically superior people would stick around with their wisdom, what kind of impacts have you seen in your experience where you've seen a lot of exit of people over 60 leaving and how much it damages companies.

Bruce: I can think of three different companies right now. I won't name them, but, but where the, the exodus over the last, yeah, probably five years has, has just hurt them. Both, you know, their financially their bottom line, the relationships with customers the understanding of the marketplace and what needs yet to be fulfilled.

Those are all gone and they're having to recreate themselves from scratch without any of that benefit. Now we also, we, we, we have a private equity fund, so we invest in new startup companies. Three of those companies, as intentionally, part of it are bringing on staff, people that are over 65 and bring them on as mentors to their young staff, as they're developing these new, fantastic products. I think that's just really fantastic.

Jim: And there's opportunities like that everywhere. There are 10 million jobs out there and available. And if you want to work, you can take, you could pick and choose. Maybe you don't wanna go where you have been for the last 20 or 30 or 40 years, but there's a place for you.

And your wisdom is desperately needed as somebody working over. Ain't nobody who's 20 who knows what you know. You're listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. We'll be right back with our second segment with our special guest Ron Henry. Hang on for just a minute.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training. To bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org, and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Retirementreformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him!

Jim: And welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we jump into segment two, Bruce, every segment two, we always highlight the story of somebody limit out their faith in their quote, unquote, retirement years. Who do you have for us today, Bruce?

Bruce: Well, it's just a pleasure to have Ron Henry with us today. And Ron is a, a special case, but I'm gonna start off with just a really simple question for you. Why aren't you retired?

Ron Henry: Well, I think there's, there's a key element here that I realized in my background more than anything else is that when I got saved later in life, I learned it was about a relationship, not, not a, a, a to-do list. And I really expanded that and I realized that life is not a formula.

And then, and what, and I looked around myself and, and, you know, life is a relationship. And then I, then I, then I, God brought in, brought an amazing gentleman into my life in, back in the mid nineties and who, you know, just breathed life in me until he passed at age 90, when he finished re you know, finished writing his 92nd book on leadership, about the idea of finishing strong.

And here's a man who, the last three books he wrote, he wrote and dictated to his assistant cuz he had imaculate degeneration. So he was driven in that capacity. Yes, physically, he couldn't do it, he had a bad hip and he, and he traveled eight, eight countries this bad hip because it was a basketball injury.

But I mean, I'm not gonna, the, his name is not necessarily someone to promote here, but the point is I had someone come into my life and. It's something out there that's far bigger. And they pointed me to a target was something far bigger, which was eternity and a relationship. So I remember my, I was 30 years in executive search and I remember I was meeting a number of these executives in their forties and fifties.

And they'd, they'd be so up outta sync. And, and I would say to them, yeah, you climbed the ladder of success, but you got to the top of the ladder and realized it was leaning against the wrong building. The formula you followed and he looked behind you and it was the marriage who was in shambles. The kids didn't know you, your health was terrible.

You had heart disease at age 50. I mean, you were a mess. And so the, the, so the, the, the issue to me in his whole concept of finishing your work, what are you basing the formula on? The formula is, is a relationship with someone who's walking with me every day. Who cares more about me, cares more about my wife, cares more about my family, my grandkids than anyone else.

And I just gotta follow, you know, and just pay attention and follow directions. I work for him. So how can I retire if I work for God? How can you re how can someone retire working for God? I mean, I haven't had anyone answer that question yet. So I mean, God's, you know sort, we sort of stay around for a while.

Bruce: In the Retirement Reformation, we say that we're, we're called to be faithful for a lifetime.

And that if we are not faithful and we are not entering into that relationship and being guided by it, as you talked about that, in fact, now it's time to go to eternity because there's nothing more. Yet God has that plan for you. So how in the world did he, how in the world did he then guide you to Marketplace Chaplains, which is doing such fantastic work and we're so pleased to be affiliated, but tell me a little bit more about that transition into the work of, of Marketplace Chaplains.

Ron Henry: Well, I, I think to me, I've learned and once again, because I dealt with people, I do a lot of career advisory work that I realized that the whole function is all about position. You know, God already has my next assignment set up, but if I'm not positioned to receive it, whether it be spiritually, emotionally, or physically, he's not gonna give me something and I'm not gonna recognize.

So I understood the positioning was first and foremost, the most, you know, the most critical need of that. And also I recognized I read a book that really influenced me a lot by John Eldridge called God the father. And he wrote it in 2010 and he started talking about the seasons of life. And it just, all of a sudden he put a name to something that I knew of, which is a Sage season, but it, it dawned to me, everybody, everybody, there's not an exception.

They moves into their, sometimes into their sixties. When they leave a king generation, they get greater joy outta life coming alongside someone and helping 'em be successful than actually being the one responsible. They didn't want the headache of payroll. They didn't want the headache of hiring and firing, but they wanna help people and glean back and give back.

So when he Elridge articulated, that just goes, wow, that makes sense. Cuz all these executive guys that had come to in a search business going, oh, they won't hire me. I'm not marketable. And then I kept saying you're why would anybody hire you? You know, too much, but you have great value. And then the more and more it's been shared about that and I've now experienced it.

I mean, what a powerful season I'm in, in life. I can actually help people navigate through courses that I actually experience over the last 50 years and maybe even get 'em to understand and believe, many of these people will do far greater than myself because they, they now have someone that's working with them and I don't have to.

And, and I'm not there to tell 'em anything I'm just there to listen. I mean, if I learned that lesson early on, I'd probably, my marriage would be better if I learned how to listen better.

Jim: Your wife, all of our wives would probably affirm that. Your wife called, Ron. She's appreciating the work that you are making. She knows that there's progress still to be made.

Ron Henry: Well, I'm sure that's it. I, of course she now has me having hearing aids just to make sure I hear her. So that's something else.

Bruce: And does she have the dial? The dial up?

Ron Henry: Don't even go there. I don't let her, I don't let her touch it.

Bruce: That's great. Jim, do you have a, do you have a question for Ron?

Jim: Ron, what I love the fact you, you know, you're, you're past 60 and you're working and you're loving it. In fact, you started working for the chaplains after retirement age, didn't you?

Ron Henry: Well, well, what, the interesting, how God's perfect plan and positioning, and I didn't actually answer your question directly is when I wound down my second search firm, about seven years ago, I had been praying to God. I said, what can I, how can I really impact.

And use what you've given me. All right. And, and, you know, and cuz I didn't, I never sold to company millions of dollars. So I revenue was still something important to, you know, live a certain lifestyle. And so I kept praying what the help. And meanwhile, I remember, I remember meeting Jason Brown, who I've been trying, I mean encourager in, in his life for a number of years as he was there and I'm familiar with Marketplace Chaplains and he approached me at a conference.

He goes, Hey, you're a great recruiter. I'm looking for somebody to help on the marketing team on the west coast. Do you know anybody. I'm thinking. Sure. I've been doing this for years. I, I sure I can come up with somebody. And I said, do you pay for this position? He goes, yeah, we actually pay. And I go, wow, that's kind of cool.

So I remember going back to my room and telling my wife and I said, honey, I just had an interesting request. And you know, Jason asked me to do this. She looked at me. He goes, isn't that what you do? Yeah. Wow. Okay. I mean, I wasn't looking for anything. I was positioned well and I was positioned there to serve and all of a sudden it came to me and I went back to Jason.

I'm going well, I, I don't know if I can commit a hundred percent of my time, but maybe 80%. He goes 80% of your time is worth 150% to anyone else. But your experience and working with business owners and opening up markets, and that, that started six over six and a half years ago. So I mean, what greater joy do I. And just bringing God's love and bringing Jesus to the workers at this season of life and just helping people.

Jim: So well, and let's talk about that.

Ron Henry: My wife said, my wife said, now she goes, well, you do what you'd be doing if they didn't pay you, wouldn't you? I go, well, probably.

Jim: Yeah. What, that's the beauty of wanting to work? You are working in a sweet spot and you love what you do. And, and there's so many people listening to this podcast today. That need to know about Marketplace Chaplains, because it's a, it is work that they would love to do too. Just pouring their lives into another generation of workplace beings. So like all people, it created the image of God, not all of them believers, obviously, but people could check out Marketplace Chaplains online at mchapusa.com.

MCHAPusa.dot com. Excuse me. Ron, who would be perfect to call you and connect with you about becoming a marketplace, chaplain?

Ron Henry: Anyone who has a heart to care and wants to have, find an additional purpose to their life. Remember that the, I think part of the terminology for the people in the, in the so-called season we're talking about is to work on your vocabulary.

Work on your vocabulary because God gives us assignments. So at this season of life, it's not a job. Can you say the word job and be encouraged? I don't think you say the word would be, but if you said I have an assignment from God, you know, the blues brothers got it. Right. You know, back in the movie, God, an assignment from God, God.

So the point being is, if you're in this season and you're saying I wanna do something that's really impactful, but I don't wanna work 40 hours. I don't wanna put 40 hours a week in, but I wanna leverage something I really enjoy and really give back. What that's chaplaincy that's, you know, just imagine as a person, you be able to walk into a company and be an encouragement to people guide 'em and direct him.

We, we provide all the training you need, you just have to have the right heart and you actually get paid for it too. So it's, that's not a, that's not a bad thing.

Jim: And in the next 10 years, there's a need for over a hundred thousand workplace Marketplace Chaplains, MCHAPusa.com. That's me prophesying, Ron, just so you know.

MCHAPusa.com. Ron Henry. Thanks for being on iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Thanks, Ron.

Ron Henry: Thanks for allowing me to be here. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce: And hopefully this message will reach some percentage of those that will then make a difference. So thanks for what you do.

Ron Henry: Praying that it does. It'll make, give them 10 more good years of their life.

Jim: Yeah, it's amazing. Pouring your life into others. You're listening to iRetire4Him and we'll be right back.

Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore retirementreformation.org. That's retirementreformation.org.

Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. As we're talking about working past 60, having to work was last time. This time is wanting to work. Bruce, today's weird economic times with low unemployment, high inflation and monstrous job opportunities. Some of our friends who choose to continue working into retirement, choose to change their jobs, choose to change their career path, choose to change their industry. Why?

Bruce: Well, first of all, I think because there are opportunities, secondly, there is and, and as our, our, our guests that we just completed our conversation with with Ron Henry, he talked about the being positioned for something unique. And so it's the positioning. It's not the position and that God will then direct that positioning and, and those opportunities then will come up.

People ask me, well, you know, what kind of a job should I do? And my answer is what has he prepared you to do? They go well, I'm not sure. I said, here's the here's here's the action plan. Take a step forward and then listen for his guidance. And he'll and he will direct your paths.

Jim: What? You've got a four part book series that could also help lead them through that conversation. Really, if you're not sure what God has prepared you to do, it's time for some quiet time and no better thing to do than, than to be - some quiet time with Bruce's four books in your hands, one at a time: charting your course to figure out what God's got for you in retirement. Check those books out. At retirementreformation.org org under the resource tab.

All right, Bruce. But isn't it tough to change jobs after 60? You mean we're kind of set in our ways and you know, can we even learn? Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

Bruce: I always think of my friend Moses here. He was age 80.

Jim: Your age!

Bruce: Yeah, exactly. My age and God shows up in this burning Bush and says, man, I'm gonna do 180 degrees on your life. And watch out what's coming now. Remember he had a family, it was grown. He'd escaped from Egypt. He was raised by the, I mean, you know, all the stuff that you know about Moses and here it is at 80, and God's saying you got a right hand turn right ahead of you, brother, and he's got 40 years that will impact the world forever.

And so Moses hesitated, however, He said, gee, I, I, I'm not sure I can do that. I'm not a very good speaker. And he had a bunch of excuses, just like the rest of us make. But when we put ourselves into God's hands and he opens doors and we step into them, he guarantees that he will provide us both the energy, the intentionality and the application of experiences.

To be able to apply him. And so that's all good sounding, but there's just a lot of people that are just flat scared. Oh. And they need to, they need to stand up and take a, take a step forward.

Jim: Well, and I think Moses was scared to death. He begged God, please, please just make somebody else do this. I can't talk.

And, and yet Moses got a J I mean his, he, for the first 40 years, he was, you know, he was, he was spoiled to death. The next 40 years he's hanging out with sheep in the desert in the next 40 years, he's hanging out with people, sheep in the desert for 40 years. Yeah, that's right. But God, I mean, but in that last 40 years, he was closer to God than anybody else has ever been on the planet.

Cuz he spent face to face time with God. And that's really how rich our last phase of life is. We get that opportunity to be a little quieter, to hear the voice of God. We've had the wisdom under our belts. Not make some of those same mistakes over again, and we can learn new things. It may take some technology expertise, but we've all got kids or grandkids or the neighbors, kids that can help us out with our iPhones.

Bruce: You don't know if you don't know something about the technology, just ask your five year old grandchild. That's right. He'll he'll square you away in about a minute and a half. Bruce.

Jim: Did you make any major career changes after 60?

Bruce: No. I made career additions. Not career changes, career editions, and that's kind of a different way to think about it. I've been the CEO of Envoy financial for 30 plus years, but being a farmer in Laos, my wife always reminds me she didn't intend to marry a farmer, having a coffee plantation there the ministries that we've done in 60 different foreign countries the development of the Retirement Reformation. And so it's, in my case, it's been an addition to not a replacement of.

Jim: And, and that opportunity is there for everybody. We don't have to do what we have been doing. Some of us have to work cause we need the income, but God's got work specifically designed for you in these years after 60. And it's not just playing golf, playing tennis, playing pickle ball, or finding seashells.

It's work of investing your life into other people with the wisdom that you have, because if you're working after 60, you got 60 years of experience that those youngsters don't have. And many of the youngsters that you're working alongside don't have access to grandparents. Someone don't have access to parents it's so it it's so important pouring your life in others.

Bruce, one final question. Before we talk about how the Retirement Reformation can help us with all this. What are some of the factors we should consider when changing our jobs, but choosing to work?

Bruce: I think the key is, is does it fit our passion? The position that God has put us in, all of our experiences. That's one, the second one, does it fit the, the circumstance of, of your family and your time? Does it fit in, into the, into the rhythm of this new stage of life, with your spouse, with your children, with your grandchildren. So is there in conflict with that or is it part of that process? So I think those are two really key variables.

Jim: Very, very cool. And it just, and I would just encourage, add to that is choose a place that it fits your passion for life and choose a place where there are people there that you can pour your life into. And, and because you have so much to offer, Bruce, how can the Retirement Reformation help our friends who are choosing to work, but doing it with a level, a new level of intentionality?

Bruce: First of all, I think it's, it's having a better understanding of who God has created us to be and the trajectory of life that he has created us to have. My experience and I think the message of the Retirement Reformation and the, and the resources that are there and available for you. Matter of fact, we're releasing next week the rethinking retirement, which is an 11 week small group series.

Oh, for people to be able to understand how God has prepared them for this next stage and to open up their thinking about what the options and alternatives are. I'm always surprised at, at, at a new circumstance that I'm faced with. And I go, gee, I don't know anything about that. And then I think back 30 years ago, something happened that informed me that allows me to be able to step into this situation that if that experience of 30 years ago hadn't happened, I wouldn't be ready. And so God, he knows. Yes, he does. And to trust that he knows.

Jim: No wiser words could be spoken. Bruce, great conversation on working after 60 - choosing to work. Next time we come back, we're gonna talk about volunteering. Thanks, Bruce. Appreciate the conversation.

Bruce: God bless my friend.

Jim: You've been listening to IRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation online at retirementreformation.org. I'm your host, Jim Brangenbergen. Of course we've had Bruce Bruinsma, the founder of the Retirement Reformation with us. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering.

During retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money. And invested all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto@retirementreformation.org. And explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation dot.