6/6/22 - iRetire4Him Show 63: Working After 60, Part 1

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement. To embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop. You can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg of course I'm always joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Check us out online at retirementreformation.org, retirement, reformation.org. Wasn't it dolly Parton, who sang: working nine to five. What a way to make a living, barely getting by. It's all taking and no giving. They just use your mind and they never give you credit. It's enough to drive you crazy if you let it.

But really most of us love going to work. Work gives us purpose. Work paid for things that we love. Work provided for our family. But now you're thinking I have a different perspective on my work. I'm over 60 and work has taken on a whole new role in my life. Well, welcome to iRetire4Him as today, Bruce Bruinsma and I start a three part series on working after 60, we're gonna take three different approaches in the podcast over the next three weeks, having to work, wanting to work and volunteering since we all know that retirement is unbiblical. We hope this conversation helps you determine how to best serve your local community in the years following 60. Bruce Bruinsma. Welcome back to, iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Jim is always as good to be with you. And I'm really excited about this next three weeks, because these are subjects that, that, that has received some attention in the, in the mass media and other places. But there's, there's some changes that are happening and I I'm so glad that we're gonna be able to explore it together.

Jim: Well, and as we talk today about having to stay at work, when, when you really look at it, there are probably people that last year, the year before they were thinking I'm gonna retire in 2022. And that was before 30 and 40% inflation. I know they say it's less, but we all know better than that because I paid $6 and 60 cents for gas in California the other day. And last March in Missouri, I paid a dollar 59. That's somewhat...

Bruce: I'm gonna interrupt. I'm gonna interrupt you because last week, Friday, Afternoon in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, I paid $9 and 30 cents a gallon.

Jim: That's a lot of money.

Bruce: That's a lot of money,

Jim: Bruce. It's not a fun reality to focus on, but some people, even though they are of retirement age, they have to work. That doesn't seem fair.

Bruce: You know, I don't think it's a question of fair. Unfortunately, it, it would be nice if, if, if the world was fair, but that's kind of not the way. God created it fair, but then a couple of folks named Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel and a few other folks intervened in there. And, and so this whole fairness issue kind of kinda went away.

And so it really talks about it really talks about need. And, and so is there a financial need perhaps? Is there an emotional. But let's fi focus on that financial side for a while, because there's an increasing number of people that they have to work in order to what, in order to live, to have the resources, to be able to buy whatever it is they need to you know, to be able to take the, the next week and stride.

Jim: So since I'm the one that's closest to 60 of the two of us, I thought it would be helpful for us to go through some of the reasons that people. Have to stay at work past retirement age. And I don't think one of them is the failure to plan whether it's planning financially or, I mean, let's just start with that.

They just never started saving enough for retirement. They thought social security would take care of them and it's just not gonna be enough. Or they. Kept refinancing their mortgage. I, I have a lot of friends that are my age that still have quite a mortgage cuz they kept refinancing their mortgage or they kept buying new homes.

And so their homes aren't paid for. And that of course is a big nut to, to crack in today's world. But I think most people who have to stay at work, they just got expenses that are more than what they can, they can cover by what their retirement income's going to give them. And that may be some of it due to inflation, but some of 'em due to life.

Bruce. You've got friends and I've got friends that live in a lifestyle that just simply isn't sustainable with an ongoing retirement income. They need to supplement it with pay.

Bruce: Let me just interject into that, please. There's another piece that that is, is foundational to all the issues that you, that you addressed and perhaps some others, but the fact that retirement now is actually the length of time.

So the reality of longevity being 30 years. I remember when, you know, when I was younger people, you know, they worked till 65, they died at 67, not a big deal. Now you're just getting started when you're 70. So we've got this longer period of time and that costs more money, not just only because of inflation, but just simply because of the length of time.

And then medical expenses is another piece that jumps in here. Oh, I, for sure that they didn't have before. And so there's all of these things that have, have come up, man. That that's a pretty serious set of issues to try and address.

Jim: Yeah, it, it is. Absolutely. I think one of the questions I wanna talk about is, okay, so let's we have to work. Okay. Let the, the, the, the, that's what the focus is today working after 60, we have to work, but do we have to keep the same job?

Bruce: And I think the answer to that is absolutely not as a matter one of the great. Hidden benefits if you wish of COVID, is that there is every place I look, there are job, you know, there are signs of wanting to hire people.

And so you have an opportunity to be able to make some adjustments in what you're doing. It may be adjustments as is, is reducing the number of hours that you work, because you don't need to work 40 or a place where in fact, you can get additional pay for what you do. Third. It may be a place where it's just more fun to work.

And so even though you have to, you put that overlay of blessing on it and, and there, there are some hidden benefits that we may not otherwise acknowledge.

Jim: The hidden benefits. And I think that, yeah, if you're going to have to work, you really ought to make sure your place where you're working is a place where you can't wait to go every day.

And I think that, you know, sometimes people stay at John for 30, 40 years. Because they don't like change, but if they've figured out, well, if I gotta stay somewhere for another 10, I wanna go somewhere where I love going to work every day. What were some of the reasons that your friends Bruce kept for having to work well past 60?

Because you've got friends that are in their seventies and their eighties and their nineties, what were some of the reasons where they kept working? Why?

Bruce: Well, let's, let's break this into a couple of different categories.

Jim: Let's keep it to the, having to work category.

Bruce: I under. No, I understand. Okay. But in that, having to work, I think there are some different categories.

One of them is the entrepreneurial world. You, you own a business and you don't have an exit plan. And so you just simply haven't planned that way. You may be financially. Okay. But in fact, you wanna see your business continue or it needs to continue for whatever the reasons. And so you're in a sense you're kind of stuck.

And so you keep working because that's what you do. As a matter of fact, I was talking to one of our staff members this morning and, and the staff member was sharing about her mother and her mother is 67. She's a hairdresser and continues to work five days a week plus Saturday. And when asked about, well, why aren't you gonna stop? She says, well, I have no retirement and I don't know what else to do.

Jim: Well. And if, as long as your fingers are nimble, you could do that forever. I mean, and plus people who are hairdressers and hairstylists, they get to it's like counseling. They they're they're bartenders and hair stylist. They're like counselors.

They're, that's what they're doing to list of people's problems. That would be fun. What a great ministry place that is.

Bruce: I wanted to, I wanted to continue on that thought.

Jim: Well, why don't you continue on that thought when we come back from our breakwould that be okay?

Bruce: Let's do it that way.

All right. You're listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, but check us out online at retirementreformation.org. We'll be right back with our first guest of this series. And then Bruce and I finish this conversation. We'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say iRetire4Him. Retirement, reformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, Bruce, every second segment, you bring on a guest, that's got a story to share of how their faith is being lived at, lived out in their life. Who do you have for us?

Bruce: I've got a very special guest today and, and she's special for all kinds of reasons, but the one that's the closest to my heart is, is her work in the anti-abortion movement and the way that she has been both committed and activity, both in, from a, from a civic standpoint, as well as from a ministry standpoint. So Dr. Sharen Ford welcome. We're so glad that you're here.

Dr. Sharen Ford: Well, thank you for having me on your program today. What a pleasure.

Bruce: Spent more than a couple of years being guided by God's holy spirit in some very specific areas of action. Give us just a quick executive summary, if you would, of how he's directed your paths to, to get you to where you are today in serving him in the way that you do.

Dr. Sharen Ford: Well the short story I worked for state government here in Colorado at the department of human services in the division of child welfare. For 30 years I worked for state government being a good public servant. I hope.

Jim: Thank you for that.

Dr. Sharen Ford: Thank you. But it's about children in foster care. Children who are in need of adoption, working with families who were prospective foster parents, prospective adoptive parents, working with adolescents boy, as our kids get older, they're sometimes still in the foster care system and they need permanency and they need guidance. And so those kids are aging out of the foster care system and what's gonna happen to them.

That was part of the. And then that important work, all of that work is important, but thinking about kids and families who cross state lines, that there needs to be that conversation with other state employees and other states to say, gosh, a family that I know of here is moving to your state. And I wanna make sure that they're connected with the right resources before we send them your way.

And by the same token, they were sending families our way. And so that's called the interstate on the placement of children and the interstate compact on adoption medical assistance. So those were some of the things in my portfolio that allowed me to. Be a, hopefully a, a public servant that was mindful of that.

All these things impact children and they impact families. And if we are not doing our, just job that God will hold us accountable. We're not serving well.

Bruce: If I can, if I can interject - Judy and I were foster parents for about 10 years and the the, the brother and sister that came with us, they were four and five at the time that they came.

And when they were 12, 13, they went back in, in Oregon. At that point in time, you couldn't adopt, if you were a foster parent, that's changed now. Thank goodness. But anyway, their mother took them just for two weeks into another state and we could not bring them back. And so that I wish we had an advocate like you at that point in time, cuz I was really pained.

Dr. Sharen Ford: I'm sure it was not only painful for you and your wife. Thank you for serving. Thank you so much. What you poured into those children are seeds that will mushroom and grow over a lifetime very much so. Yes, you're correct. It hurt it. Not only hurt you, but it hurt the children. And I pray that God sent some other people to be in those children's lives to help them in their journey of life.

Bruce: We were, they were blessed and he did. So how did you make a transition then from being a public servant to being a private servant?

Dr. Sharen Ford: Well, you know during the last probably, Ooh, six years of working in state government, I got connected with one of a vice president at focus on the family. And in her role, she was interested in identifying families across the United States in churches.

That would care about the children in their state that were going to be leaving the foster care system without a forever family. Even today, there are over a hundred thousand children who have their parental rights terminated and they are seeking a forever family. And so that that young woman, her name was Kelly Zadi.

Said, Hey, when you get ready to retire, would you, I want you to come work with me. I focus on the family and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Well, when it was time for me to leave state government I had this little niggling in the back of my head and God said, call her, reach out to her. She really did mean what she said.

And so I did, and she said, don't take another position. Give me a few minutes. I need to make some, you know, calls. And before I knew it I had a job offer to come work with focus on the family.

Bruce: What a, what a blessing. And so how has that, how has that call played itself out over these last, what six years now and what it is that you see ahead of you? What are the, what are the kind of the key highlights?

Dr. Sharen Ford: I think the key highlights are, is we have moved our, what we call our wait no more program here at focus on the family from being just about the children who are legally free for adoption to having a more broader perspective that children... doesn't.

It doesn't matter where a child is in their journey. If they're coming to the attention to, of, of state government or local child welfare government, they need quality foster homes. Families who are doing the foster care work. They need families who will wrap loving and supportive services around them.

That families who God has called to adopt those families need supportive services wrapped around them. And they're through this journey of caring for children who have trauma histories. That those families need to be equipped and supported. And so one of our roles is to not just say, Hey, come be a foster parent.

Oh, Hey, come be an adoptive parent. But who in your church, who in your community will love on you and care for you as you're caring for vulnerable children? So that you know that you're not walking alone. God says, I'll never leave you nor forsake you. And so if God's not leaving us or forsaking us, that he has people in the pews, maybe not in your church, but in someone's church that will stand up and be supportive of you and the children that you're caring for. And that's what he asks his bride to do.

Bruce: You know, there's about 40 million retired Jesus followers who are not active in ministry at all, other than attending church, perhaps. And so the call that you just made without calling it a call to the audience that we serve, I think has a really unique opportunity to it and a huge need.

Matter of fact, I was at a conference recently and I think I heard the number that there were 400,000 children in the foster care. Is that about a right number?

Dr. Sharen Ford: That's a right number.

Hey, if every church, if there would be grandparents. Older folks and younger folks that would partner together as the church of Jesus Christ. We could fix that problem in a couple of months.

Exactly, exactly. You know, I ask people, you know, I say, you know, God, didn't say that we're supposed to do everything. He only asked you to do your piece. What is the piece that God is asking you to do? Everybody can do something. Everybody can cook, somebody can cook, someone can clean, someone can sit down and, and, and have a cup of coffee with you and, and just be a good listener.

Someone can come in and watch your children while you sleep. Just get the extra rest that you need. What is your yes. When God asks you to step in, are you willing to say yes without hesitation, knowing that he will provide for you and keep you, and when you say yes to him, boy, what a difference that makes in the life of that child that you're touching the life of that foster family, that adoptive family.

Boy, everybody needs help and support. And you're right. There's a population of people who could step in and make a difference today. They don't have to have special training, special equipment they can serve. They can serve with the servant's heart.

Bruce: Dr. Sharen Ford, we thank you for your life. Thank you for your ministry. And Jim, do you have a question?

Jim: , I got, I got two questions because whoa, one of the things, yeah, I know. Well, this is a, this is a very touching spot to our lives. Martha and I had two foster children. One of which we got to adopt and is now my grandchildren through my foster daughter, my adopted daughter is graduated from high school in a couple weeks and all of my kids are now foster parents.

But it's a battle, Sharen. They're in three different states, Minnesota, Florida, and Missouri. In Florida, foster parents don't have to battle the system near as much because the system is very clear to make kids available for adoption, as quick as possible. In Missouri, my kids are so frustrated. They want to give up because the system is just so messed up.

I mean, and my kids in Minnesota, they, they know, they knew they live in Minnesota. They, they knew what to expect. How can we speak encouragement into potential families? No matter what their age is to, to get involved because the system at times could cause aggravation?

Dr. Sharen Ford: You know something that I've learned the hard way is that if we take, if it's too easy, people don't pay attention to it.

That, that friction, it grows muscles. And as you grow that muscle of advocacy, as you grow that muscle of prayer, God will see you through. Cause if you give up, when there's friction, you're gonna give up. When that, when that child has friction in your home, I don't want you to give up. I want you to trust God and to lean into him and to keep moving forward and to ask for help, you can contact me at focus on the family and I'll be your encourager.

I'll remind you that God's called you to do the work and that he will keep you in the work if you trust him.

Jim: I'm giving all three of my kids, your name. So last question, you're over 60 and you started you retired and started a brand new career. Can you imagine anything more wonderful than what God has for you in this next stage of life?

Dr. Sharen Ford: No, I can't imagine. Because see this stage is a rich stage. He told me that he would keep me as long as I did what he asked me to do. Do my knees hurt some days? Yes. Do I get tired maybe earlier in the evening than some young person? Yes. But he, every morning his mercies are new. Amen. Every morning he reminds me of what he's called me to do, and he outlines my steps and I'm like, God, I'm just trying to be obedient to you. And as long as I'm obedient, he's gonna provide. And that's what I trust him to do.

Jim: Dr. Sharen Ford. Thanks for being an iRetire4Him today. Really appreciate it.

Bruce: God bless your work. And may it continue!

Dr. Sharen Ford: Thank you so much, gentlemen.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on, iRetire4Him. Talking about working past 60, having to work. Every iRetire4Him Show goes so quickly.

We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed. Let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement.

iRetire4Him Is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore. Retirementreformation.org, that's retirement, reformation.org.

And welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we talk today about working past 60, having to go to work. Bruce, you had a comment you wanted to make right before the break. Go ahead.

Bruce: Well, I was just kind of breaking it out into some different categories. One, I mentioned about the entrepreneur who, who is really kind of trapped and, and so he has to continue to work, not necessarily for financial reasons, but for other reasons. Then secondly, you have a, a senior executive in a business and, and, and they have not adequately planned for succession.

Just kind like on the entrepreneurial side. And so from a board standpoint, they're kind of stuck. They don't know what else to do. And so it continues to work because there's commitment. There's a need that, that only he, or she seems like they can fulfill, then you've got the, you know, the middle management type of, of job and, and worker where they just simply need the salary.

But I think the point that you made is critical, and we ought to explore that a little bit more about the opportunities to be able to make a change at this time in life to continue to work. Because you need to, but to do it in a place that gives you greater joy, some, perhaps some more freedom and certainly some meaning and purpose.

Jim: Yeah. I think what's, what's great with, with the whole mindset of living out your faith in your work. If you've worked in an environment for multiple decades where that really squelched your ability to live out your faith, to be able to search out, because there are literally, what was the number that released at the end of a couple weeks ago, 10 million jobs available.

You can pick and do anything. You can work anywhere. Hobby lobby's pretty hard to get into. I've got a granddaughter trying to get in hobby lobby, but you know that that's a little tougher, but when you look at the opportunities, they're unlimited that filter. I think Bruce, how do you figure out what career might be a good fit?

Bruce: Well, first of all, if you, you know, you're, you're now your 60 or maybe 65 and. You've had an opportunity to experience perhaps things that don't fit. Therefore that gives you the opportunities and things that do secondly, or what are the things that you're passionate about. Right. And that a, that a, a job setting.

We have a lot of staff that work with us who, who come to work with us because we're a Christian ministry and they provide the skills. They need to work. They provide the skills, but they do it within a context that gives them greater pleasure. And when they put their head on the pillow at night, it's not because they're glad because they got a paycheck, which they need, but it was also had meaning and purpose.

Jim: Have any of your friends chosen just totally different careers after 60?

Bruce: Ah, they have. Matter of fact, one of those examples, a number of examples are people that were in, in, in, in for profit business of one kind or another. And totally changed their career to become, you know, the CFO of a, of a ministry, or to be able to apply their skills in a ministry setting where they're still paid, their compensation is there, but the purpose for the work has changed other than their need for still compensation. But what it is that they're doing provides much more meaning and much more purpose.

Jim: Have you ever thought about if you were gonna do something? I mean, on, you know, his Envoy's group, they, they say, you know, you know, you just decide, you know, I've, I've done what I need to get done. And now I'm just gonna go ahead and let it, let it be.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna move away from it. You've got your coffee plantation. You've got Retirement Reformation. Is there anything else you'd like to explore into your eighties?

Bruce: Well, into the, into the eighties, the opportunity to encourage people. In meaningful ways and the Retirement Reformation gives us an opportunity to do that.

And that is what it is that God's called me to for the rest of my active life. And it's certainly not a job. It certainly is a ministry, but it certainly is also hard work. So let's not, let's not break those apart. We're always gonna be working. God calls us to work. And, and so it's not a question that there's not gonna be sweat on our brow.

But is what is gonna be the result of the sweat on our brow, both for us internally and for the impact on those we love and those we're called to serve.

Jim: Yeah. I've often thought about, you know, I could be a handyman over the last 40 years.

Bruce: Well, you do a good job in that. You're fantastic.

Jim: I, I would, I've taken, you know, maybe I could help other people and I don't need to make a lot of money cuz I've I I've, I don't have any debt.

I thought that'd be kind of fun to do. I also had a car dealership in my, in my thirties and my forties. I've I've thought about going back and doing that, but now that the car market has been destroyed by the government complex, I'm not sure whether that's a good idea, but I've also thought about being a preacher.

I, I would be fun. I don't know. I'd be a very good pastor cuz when people are being stupid, I just tell people they're being stupid. That's not very shepherding, like, but I love to teach it. It's fun, but I don't know that I, I taught high school one year... I would never do that. But it's fun to think, okay. If I'm gonna work, which we're all gonna work in some fashion, because we're not gonna sit back and just play golf all day long or play tennis or, or, or a pickle ball, because God's called us to be workers and we've, and we're called to the gospel to the mission.

Bruce: The great thing. I think the, the stages in, in the stages in retirement also tend to dictate what options are available to you and which ones you want to take advantage of. So, you know, that, that first stage of fairly active, that you're in very much. So that second stage, which is much more consultative and, and, and, and much more mentoring, that's probably more of the stage that I'm in.

And then the last stage, which is that reflective stage, where you're able to really get your arms runner and be able to position that information for others, but to find ways. As work to be able to do those things and to recognize the differences and to be prepared for them. I, I, I think is really important.

Jim: Well, and what I love the fact is that I believe Retirement Reformation can help with all of this. As you really help people work through with your series of books, helping people work through how will I spend my retirement years, even if I choose to work or have to work in order to pay my bills.

There's a level of intentionality that Retirement Reformation can help with this. Isn't there, Bruce?

Bruce: And there's also the realization that, you know, we need to bloom where we're plant. And if it is, we need to work because for all the reasons we talked about, some of them dumb and some of them, you know, he'd say, well, that was just really stupid not to prepare, but that is where you are.

And God can, will use you everywhere that you are. And if you are in his will, then even that need to work can be played out as a ministry.

Jim: Oh. Especially the need to, to. God has got so much for you in this work. And if you have to work, look at it as an opportunity to create, to really explore your own mission field.

Your workplace is your ministry place. And in that ministry place, you may be the only Jesus, your coworkers, employees, and bosses may ever meet. Bruce, great conversation. As we start off this three part series on working past 60 and on having to work, I, I thank you very much for this great conversation.

Bruce: I loved it too. And there's lots more in the next two parts of the series.

Jim: You been listening to the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg. Well, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. With yours, Jim Brangenberg of course, Bruce. Bruinsma the founder of the Retirement Reformation.

Please check us out. Online retirement, reformation.org. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma.

iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life.

Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation.org.