7/4/22 - iRetire4Him Show 65: Working After 60, Part 3

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, online at retirementreformatio.Org I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And I'm joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

You could also check us out on Facebook, Facebook, retirement reformation. Hey, wasn't it huey Lewis who sung working for a living, living and working. I'm taking what they've given, cuz I'm working for a living? But really why do we leave our homes? Our places of rest and relaxation. Why do we go to work?

Well, most of us go because we love to work. Work gives us purpose. Work pays for things we love. Work provides for our family. Now you're thinking I have a different perspective on my work. I'm over 60 and work has taken on a whole new role in my life. Well, welcome to iRetire4Him as today, Bruce and I venture out on week three of three in a series on Working After 60. Last week, we talked about wanting to work.

This week, we're covering working as a volunteer. Some of us don't need to work for a living anymore, but we still want to work since we all know that retirement isn't biblical. We hope this conversation helps you determine best how to serve your local community through volunteering in the years, following 60. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Jim.It's good to be back. And the subject to volunteering is a, is a huge one. And as we try to kind of get our arms around it and perhaps provide some encouragement to our listeners for areas where this kind of work will be relevant to them. And in fact, I remember if I remember correctly, you can, you can correct me, but in, in your book iWork4Him, you talk about working in your neighborhood and volunteering there. Can you, can you unpack a little bit of that for us?

Jim: Sure. And that's in the book iRetire4Him. And, and what we really talk about is the fact that, you know, some of us don't have to work and some of us don't need to make a paycheck. And in fact, some of us may be limited to just hanging out in our local community or that's where we choose to have our ministries in our local community.

One of the things I talk about Bruce, is that so many of our retired friends tend to move into neighborhoods full of people 55 plus, because I don't know. Because that's what people do. My challenge in my book is to move into a retirement full of young families because all of those young families desperately need somebody chronologically superior to them that can pour their lives into.

So many young families that Martha and I have interacted with don't have access to parents. Don't have access to grandparents. Don't have access to people who can teach them how to fix things, plan things. They don't know how to raise children because they were raised heavily dysfunctionally and so I just re encourage them. Your ministry as a volunteer can start right there in your own neighborhood. Right where you live and sleep every day.

Bruce: You know, I was just trying to think of a, perhaps of an old formula that that could be of some guidance, both to our conversation, as well as to our listeners. And it's that old adage, you know, do what, find a need and fill it, find a hurt and heal it and find somebody to love and just flat love on them. You know, in every neighborhood that fits a, a, a picture of needs that are there. When Jesus said, said, you know, love your neighbor, man. There are neighbors with hurts all around us. And we don't have to go very far to find them.

Jim: No, that is for sure. They live behind you. They live in front of you. They live next to you. They live caddy corner to you. They live in the next cul-de-sac over, but they're living near you, you know?

And Bruce, I think it's a matter of understanding it. Some people like we've talked about in the past couple of podcasts, some people have to stay at work because they need the money. Some people want to continue working and get a paycheck, but just enjoy what they're doing. And some people are like, you know what? I don't need that stuff, but I want to spend my time living on purpose for a purpose. And I wanna volunteer. And a lot of us, as we get into our forties, fifties, and sixties, we've identified with local organizations that are making an impact. And Bruce, that's a place where we can choose to volunteer. Isn't it?

Bruce: It certainly is. As a matter of fact, my suggestion is, is. As you identify one, two or more areas where yousay, oh, that's really, Hey, I, I can be passionate about that. And you step into that. What you'll find is that God will then continue that help you continue that journey. And you may find your way that you're volunteering for now an organization that deals with part of that issue, but that's really where your heart is.

Or you may find that there is another related area that really, that really connects with you. Let me - just a quick story. friend of mine who retired had no idea what he was gonna do. And I asked him, I said, so what do you get passionate about? He says, well, yeah, I think kids. I said, okay, why don't you call up your youth pastor and see if you can hang out with some of the kids in the youth group. He says, huh, never thought of that. Yeah, I'll go do that. So he went and did that.

Then that youth group was gonna go on a mission trip. And they went on a mission trip to Africa. When they got to Africa, there was a whole bunch of kids, but there were a bunch of disabled kids. And man that just really touched his heart. Long story short, three years later, he and his wife moved from where they were to Africa to help work at and support a mission for kids that are disabled in that country. It all started with, I don't know what I'm gonna do. What would you think you'd like to start? Why don't you talk to some kids and God will direct our paths.

Jim: You know, so many of our great nonprofit organizations around the country are in desperate need of the wisdom that retirees can bring, but they couldn't afford to hire them because they're working on a shoestring budget as too many of our Christian nonprofits do.

But Bruce, there's a, there's a way we should work. Isn't there. There's. We know a lot of stuff, but not everybody wants to know what we know right away. What's the best way for us to work after 60?

Bruce: You know, that's a really good question. And I don't think that we have, have investigated that fully enough. And hopefully we can do another whole session on that at some point. But let me just tell you where it seems to me where we are at this point in our understanding about that. And, and it, it, it starts with a realization that we're reflecting Jesus to the world. It's not about me. It's not about you. It's about reflecting Jesus.

And so finding a degree of compassion, a degree of humbleness, a degree of yet intentional energy, and to find that that mix of those things, which are different than when you're in a job, whether you're a manager or a worker or whatever. It is a different dynamic and, and the relationship part of it becomes even, I don't know if it's more important.

It seems to me like it's more important. The, the relationship part of what it is you're doing when you're being introduced to, or stepping into an organization as my as my grandfather used to say, you do know why you have two ears and one mouth.

Jim: Wow. Your grandfather, I would've liked him. You know, we're talking about volunteering today and how to do it with a level of intentionality. When we come back, you're gonna hear some stories of some guys who are volunteering to impact the next generation of retirees. You're listening to iRetire4Him with your hosts, Jim Brangenberg and Bruce Bruinsma from the Retirement Reformation. Check us out online retirementreformation.org, Bruce and I'll be back in one more segment to finish up talking about how do we choose where to retire or to volunteer in our retirement years, Working After 60 we'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org and click on the membership tab. Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today.

The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say iRetire4Him. Retirement, reformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation online at retirementreformation.org, Bruce, the second segment of every iRetire4Him podcast is always filled with special guests or guests that have a story to tell. Who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Jim, we've got two really special people that I've gotten to know. And over the last six months, when they were kind enough to reach out to me and say, perhaps we have some things that we can learn from each other and that we can talk about.

So I wanna introduce you to Ron Klein and Scott Martin. So just very quickly, Ron, just give us a, a quick executive summary of what took you to the place where we were able to have a conversation, but kind of give us just a little executive summary of, of Ron Klein and the pathway that God's has you on.

Ron Klein: I sold my company when I was 63 and I thought, okay, a little bit early to be retired, but let's see what happens now. And then within 60 days, God had me in another assignment that I didn't really pick, but he picked it for me. Five years later, I'm retired again. And so I've had to Wade through this to figure out these issues.

Well, who am I? What, what's my value? What's my purpose? What's my identity? And so I've waded through that and sort of picked at it myself to try to sort it out. And then I encountered Scott who I'm working on this to teach men how to go through this process and it requires greater intentionality. And so I partnered up with Scott to help men have a little bit better map than I did.

Bruce: Well, that's a, you know, God has a trajectory and he always prepares us for what's next, whether we're aware of it at the time or not as that case may be. Scott, give us just a little executive summary on how, how God has taken you on the journey.

Scott Martin: Well, my background really is a participant and a leader to men's ministry in small groups. And so I'm real familiar with the challenges that men have really at all stages of life. And so I was working on a - I'm a halftime graduate as well - a halftime program. And so I was working with a local men's ministry to implement that into their offering, and then COVID happened.

And then because of COVID and some challenges there, and God really opening my eyes, we opened the aperture and started looking at retirement as a much broader base of of men who need, need some help and guidance.

Bruce: So how is it that you believe that your working together will bring greater strength than either one of you working by yourself? And I'll start with Ron. What's your answer to that one and give you a chance to reflect on it, Scott.

Ron Klein: I'll give a twofold answer. One is scott and I bracket sort of this age range, I've already sort of halfway through. I'm 73. And so I've waded through much of this and had to figure it out on my own. Scott is not yet into full time retirement. And so we both bring a different perspective, but we, just like most great partnerships, we have different skills. I'm more analytical and deliberate and Scott's a much better facilitator and better with relationships than I.

Bruce: So Scott yeah. What, what's your answer to that? And how does that represent perhaps a picture of the church?

Scott Martin: It's a perfect picture of the church. You know, I, I my, my experience is with men, but not necessarily retirement, I'll be 59 this year. And so mine is theoretical. I, I have not walked in Ron's shoes. And so he brings an incredible wealth of talent and experience and real world opinions to what I state theoretically. And many, many times he'll say, well, let me tell you exactly what that looks like. And he does it from a, a person who's lived it.

Bruce: Now, one of the things that amazes me is. Is how, you know, God brings experiences to us individually, but then he also brings relationships together and those relationships bring something much stronger and broader. So Scott, let me go to you. What, what are the next steps that you're taking to be able to engage with men that are in that retirement, that 30 year period? And, and what are the steps that you're beginning to take there to, to, you know, bring those conversations to reality?

Scott Martin: What we're doing is we're developing a program for men where we walk through them in a moderate pace, nine month period, of what we identify as the seven main challenges that men face in retirement. And we're gonna do that through different methods, but primarily it's a small group of men who we, we believe will develop community and not only learn and be inspired by the things we present to them and the questions we ask and the workbooks they do, but also from the community that they form. Cause we're going to have other believers in the room who can contribute real world experience. And so we're gonna provide the setting, but they're gonna provide a lot of the wisdom themselves, honestly.

Bruce: So Ron, when you, when you talk about, I believe you said there were seven key issues, pick one of those issues and, and just kind of expand a little bit upon how you see that as being important and impactful.

Ron Klein: I'll just, I'll pick identity. So who are we? Uh, Thus far in our lives, we've been predominantly identified by a profession. When someone comes up to you and introduces themselves, they say, hi, how are you? What do you do? Right. I mean, that's the most common question. And so, we say, I'm an engineer, I'm an account, I'm a physician.

We, we identify. And other people identify. I mean, it's kind of rightfully. Are you a big picture person or what, what are the kind of things you're interested in? So I can start a conversation. What that does is it really leads us all to identify ourselves by our profession, by our standing. And so once we retire now, I'm not now.

What are you? What's your identity? Who are you? What, what, what value do you have? Are you contributing or are you just taking? And so to Scott's point, why have we elected a nine month program? We think it's, it's gonna take a month to sort through identity. We'll give you a workbook assignment, you go back and answer questions and you're stumped by them.

And you ask your wife and you pray about them and then you come back for group discussion and some conversation. But you can't really do that quickly. That's a, that's a hard task to identify who you are now.

Bruce: You know, that kind of sounds like work.

Ron Klein: That's right. To Scott's point I'll second Scott's point. This requires intentionality, I think far too many people aren't interested in the topic because are you kidding? I'm gonna be retired. It's Nirvana. Everything's gonna be great from that point forward. But if you're going to do this well, it does require intentionality.

Bruce: Well, and I think the you know, if you're not planning to do anything, you don't need a plan.

Ron Klein: Yeah. That that's exactly right.

Bruce: But God has, God has a plan for, for each of us. Scott, I'll ask you one that we haven't talked about befor. And extend out five years, maybe 10 years. What do you see the potential impact of this kind of mens ministry can have on the kingdom?

Scott Martin: Well, it's our, I'm gonna speak for Ron too, but it's our, our sincere desire to get these men engaged. Ultimately, we, we don't want just an academic exercise. And so the, these, the church needs these men desperately and the, and the world needs these men desperately. And they are a wealth of wisdom and experience, and it's our passion, I think just as yours to get them back in the game. And to realize that at 65 they have a lot of time left.

Bruce: The next 30 years.

Jim: I wanna know what's it called. We've talked about this great nine month program, but I don't know what it's called.

Scott Martin: We named it Renewing Retirement.

Jim: Renewing Retirement. Where do we find it online?

Scott Martin: Well, you can go to the ministry where underneath it is vantageconnect.org. And you can click on the group tab and click on Renewing Retirement and you can see a little picture of what we're doing.

Jim: And eventually you're gonna get your own website, Renewing Retirement.com. That would be a great one! Renewing Retirement. And where could people find? I mean, if it's not online, is there, are there Renewing Retirement groups happening across the country right now?

Scott Martin: Well, we're in the development stage, honestly.

Ron Klein: Yeah, we're sorting this out. We're experimenting. We're in Scott calls the beta program. So October 6th is our first class in a nine month program. And so we don't have it polished yet. We're trying to sort this out and figure out how to do it. And we're pretty confident. We've done a lot of steps not right. And we've done some adjustments, but we're pretty confident at this point that a nine month program with a different topic for each month is the right format for these.

Jim: So do you have the, your appropriate number of Guinea pigs for the first, the inaugural year of Renewing Retirement? Do you have 'em all lined up yet. And what city is it gonna be in?

Scott Martin: Well, we both live in Huntsville, Alabama. Okay. And so our first groups will be here. We are targeting eight to 10 men.

We think that's the right number for what we're doing as, as a first round. Beyond that we're, we're open to see where God, God leads us.

Now our,

Bruce: our, our, my request to our audience is to hold both of these men up in prayer. They're obviously very thoughtful and intentional, but they're in the early stages of development, what God is calling them to do. And so I think it's a wonderful model for many other kinds of activities that our audience can think of that there is a need. They've identified a real key need, and they've been very, they're being very intentional about stepping into it and are open to making changes as they go along.

And it would be my, be my prayer at 10 years from now, there will be a hundred, maybe a thousand of these kinds of groups impacting men and being able to build off from the foundation that God has built into the lives of Ron and of Scott. So I just want to thank you guys for the willingness to step into the issue, the way that you've approached it, and our prayers are with you. And we hope to have many interviews and to be able to work alongside with you. Jim, is there any other last questions?

Jim: My biggest thing is just when you guys get through that first month of October. And you've got your first people that have gone through identity. Let's bring one of them on so they can talk about Renewing Retirement and the impact on their lives. Just understanding identity. Boy, we'd love to have you guys back on here. Thank you so much, Ron Klein, Scott Martin from Renewing Retirement. Thank you so much for being on iRetire4Him today.

Bruce: Thank you, gentlemen.

Jim: You're listening to iRetire4Him and we'll be right back continuing our conversation on Working After 60: volunteering.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now.

I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed - let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore - retirementreformation.org. That's retirementreformation.org.

Jim: Welcome back to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece with Retirement Reformation as Bruce and I are talking about Working After 60: volunteering. Bruce when we don't have to go to work and we don't want to work for a paycheck, we still need to keep occupied because sitting still and relaxed all the time can kill a guy, can't it?

Bruce: Oh, absolutely. It's the most deadly thing in the world. As a matter of fact, all our resear h, Jim, shows that loneliness is the single biggest issue. And one of the best ways to combat loneliness is to be engaged with others. One of the ways to find meaning is to be able to pour yourself in one form or another, into helping someone else.

And so this whole idea of volunteering has, has multidimensions to it. As a matter of fact, one of the dimensions that it has is, is I think it changes somewhat based upon the stages that you are in retirement. Whether in fact, you're at that early stage, where in fact, in fact, you may be able, willing and need to volunteer, but to give, you know, really strong leadership to something in that second stage, we had a, had a guest that talked about that about the, this stage. And, and we call it mentoring where in fact, you are going to be a resource to others.

So volunteering in ways that that resource comes. And then when we talk about in the, the last stage between, you know, 85 and a hundred. Again, volunteering, but it may take again another, a whole nother look in a way that you're bringing all the experiences that you have into the lives of others. But that's the key at all those stages, you're bringing God's experience that he's put you through and the ways he's created you into the lives of others.

Jim: I just think way too often, we as people over 60, we know we've got value to bring. But not every, we think that people don't wanna hear it, but there's a way to present what we know to those people who are maybe younger than us. There's a right approach, and there's a wrong approach. Isn't there, Bruce?

Bruce: Yeah, there sure is. And that's true in all relationships. But the ability to learn, to ask the right question and then to ask the right follow up question, and then to be able to listen. And if in fact you have permission to be able to speak into the issue then to do it with a certain humbleness, but then a clarity. I think there's a formula there that that is worth considering and following.

Jim: Living with the level of intentionality in our retirement, as we volunteer looks lots of different ways. You know, some of that volunteer work could actually be, you could volunteer working at a corporation. But a lot of times we think of volunteering within a nonprofit or a local community focused ministry where we're passionate about. Whether it would be a, a, a pregnancy clinic or a food shelter or a a homeless shelter or wherever your passion may be.

Maybe it is, you know, it's, it is funny. You just met somebody recently, who is my age, mid fifties, who just is entering the foster care system, cuz they wanna help take care of kids who don't have parents. And they're doing it because their kids are gone and their grandkids are not nearby and they wanna invest in some younger kids. There's a lot of opportunities on how to plug in. Isn't there, Bruce?

Bruce: The opportunities kind of fit in, become maybe two different - more than that probably - but at least two different basic categories. One is to affiliate with an organization that has a mission for which you are passionate and to be able to step in and be of help there and whatever that looks like.

And, and then the other one is, is that individual volunteering and, and to pick up on what you were talking about to, you know, go to your church leadership and say, could you identify for me six or seven single moms in the congregation that I would be willing, we would be willing to make ourselves available to babysit for them while they go do things that they can't do, because they're a, a single parent? There's no organization involved with that. It's a one to one relationship filling a real need, finding that hurt and really filling it.

Jim: Well. And if you take my idea that we talked about in the first segment of moving into a neighborhood full of young families, or maybe you've stayed in your neighborhood, And all of your friends have moved off into those 55 plus communities, and you stay to be that wise old family to invest in all the young families moving in.

And they may not look the same as the young families were when you first moved in. But there's such a desperate need for these young families today, Bruce, to get people who are over 60 to invest in their lives for simple things like learnin how to cook, learning how to clean, learning how to change a light fixture or a faucet, learning how to take care of a car, learning how to raise children, learning how to discipline children.

Bruce, what we see in the generations that are thirties and forties is they didn't get a lot of interaction with people older than them because of divorce, because of moving away from family. There's a need for us, just living out our faith in our neighborhood.

Bruce: For those of us that have stayed married. Judy and I are coming on 60 years.

Jim: Praise God! For Judy 60 years with you, that's amazing.

Bruce: You know, what a wonderful woman talk about patience and kindness and gentleness and self control. That's all right there. But I, I, I, I think you, the point that you made is because, you know, 50% of our, our marriages end up in divorce.

And, and so that the kids have a whole, they, they have a view of marriage and relationship, which needs to have additional models that they can choose from and they can choose to adopt and they can connect with, and they can learn from.

Jim: Yeah, most of the young people in the next generations, generation X, the millennials, the digital gen, they don't think that marriage is even possible. So they're not even getting married anymore because they don't think it can work and we need to show them that it can work. Bruce, how can Retirement Reformation help our listeners figure out where's the best place for them to volunteer?

Bruce: I think the, the word intentionality comes to mind in, in the, the support materials that are there. Whether we're talking about prayer, whether we're talking about a study. Whether we're talking about multiple different books, ones that you've written ones that I've written and others that speak into these issues, the, the, the development of the things that we saw with Ron and, and, and, and, and helping men to understand what, what their additional roles can be during this retirement age.

I think we don't understand ourselves very well, and that we fall into the trap of nothing. And as we decide to step out of that trap and under the pathway to a life that God has appointed to us, that those opportunities to find a need and fill it, find a hurt and heal it, find somebody to love and be an example of it will present themselves. And the key is to be intentional and to perseve.

Jim: What a great series this has been of conversations of Working After 60. Whether you have to work, whether you want to work or whether you're choosing to volunteer, all of it can be done with a level of intentionality that will make an impact on all of those around you. For your faith, to drip on them, for your faith, to explode on them and for them to see that living and Working After 60 and loving Jesus really can provide a level of satisfaction in life that they can't find without him. Bruce Bruinsma, thanks for being an iRetire4Him today.

Bruce: It's been a great series. I look forward to the next one.

Jim: Yeah, it's always a lot of fun. You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course, Bruce Bruinsma was the founder of the Retirement Reformation. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma.

iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life.

Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto@retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation dot.