11/1/23 - 2014: Is Work Destroying Your Marriage?

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online SaferNet dot com. You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field.

What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: I believe it's a rendition of the Seven Dwarves song from the Disney picture Snow White, but it goes something like this, I O, I O, it's off to work I go. You know, we understand that everybody needs to go to work and everybody needs to make a paycheck.

We all have bills, I get it. But there's danger that lurks behind the work that you do. It could become an addiction, which then supports an addiction to buy bigger stuff. And it can become an addiction to buy more expensive stuff and accumulate more and more stuff. And that addiction can fuel unimaginable disaster.

Is it necessary for you to protect your marriage from your work? Yes. Yes, it is. If we don't operate with a high level of intentionality in our marriages that protects it at all costs, then we will set an example for the next generation that work is more important than love, that money is more important than family.

Martha and I sit down today just to dig a little deeper into this subject, because we've seen so many times that work and the spending that follows out of control will not only destroy your marriage, but your family and your life. Let's operate with a high level of intentionality. Let's protect our marriage from our work.

So Martha, why are we talking about this today?

Martha: Well, I think a lot of reasons number one is that we don't have it perfected by far. And so we live an open book life and we are always wanting to be growing, but to, to see the danger in not strengthening our marriages and keeping them strong because we get too focused on our work.

And you know, that is just a topic that's near and dear to our heart. And so we're talking about it here because on iWork4Him, we talk about all different things as they relate to our faith and our work and what's more important than keeping our marriage strong, as an example, to those that we work with every day?

Jim: We're not, neither of us are like workaholics or anything like that. Neither of us really love work. So this is okay, right? No, it's not.

Martha: What are you trying to say?

Jim: We've struggled living daylights out of this subject. You know, we've seen so many marriages struggle when work gets out of control. And honestly, it's not just the men that get this wrong. It's not just the women that get this wrong. It's both parties that get this wrong. But we have mentored now over the last 25 years about 75 couples, almost all of them entrepreneurial, but not totally. And what we have seen is that there's always this desire to work and that there's always this excuse that we can work just a little bit more and it'll be okay.

Or that I'm getting this big raise. And so it therefore justifies me taking more time away from my family, or that it's just going to be for just a little bit of time. I'm just getting to work a little extra for just a little bit more time. And things spiral out of control. It starts with working a little harder so you can make a little more money so you can pay off some debt.

Eventually to working a lot harder where then it takes you on the road and now all of a sudden you're spending less time as a family. And eventually somebody in the marriage starts to feel neglected and then well, then the marriage starts to have a little struggle and then when it's ignored long enough one of the partners in the marriage just starts to feel very disconnected and unloved and eventually It leads to separation and it could lead to divorce. It could lead to an affair, but it just starts with letting work get out of control.

Martha: Well, really for everybody we all have different scenarios in our life what our work looks like, what our family life looks like, and what is working for someone else doesn't mean it's going to work for you. And is what they're doing really working? You know, and that's really the thing is we have to go to God and say, what do you want our marriage and our home and our family to look like?

And how can we achieve that and not compare ourselves? Because we're not going to sit here and say that there are jobs that people can't do - a traveling job or whatever, you know. We can't compare ourselves to other people. What we have to say is Lord, what is it that you want to do for our marriage and how can we honor that and then take it forward?

Jim: I just seems like if you're watching the video, I'm playing around with the backgrounds. I'm trying to find the one that Martha always says hey use this one because the words are over Martha's head. Sorry, if you're not watching the video, you're not having any fun like this, but

Martha: We haven't done a show with just the two of us in a while, so it's, you know, I have to keep you under reign a little bit more, I think, so.

Jim: Yeah, I think so as well. Alright, so, what does the Bible have to say about this? Does the Bible have anything to say about work? I think it's important that we do know what the Bible says. The Bible wants us to have rest in our lives. The Bible wants us to watch out for greed and make sure that we don't work ourselves to the bone and enjoy the fruits of our labor.

All of those things fit into this. So Psalm 127 verse two says, it is senseless, senseless, - easy for me to say - for you to work so hard from early morning to late at night, fearing that you will starve to death for God wants his loved ones to get their proper rest. If we don't get rest. Everything pulls apart, including our ability to, you know, have a conversation on a podcast.

Martha: What are you saying, Jim?

Jim: I'm tired. I don't know what it is. I'm just tired today.

Martha: You know, it's funny because I was thinking this morning when we were getting up, I'm like, Thank you, Lord, for having us in a position where we're right now not having to set an alarm on most days and not that the Lord doesn't wake us up and that we don't get up. We're not slacking around, you know till mid morning, but we have this we're in a season where we work our day except for when we're having scheduled appointments or going on meetings that we get to to get the rest that we need I guess is the you know, what I was thinking about and thanking the Lord for.

Jim: Technically we do sleep until mid morning Because morning starts at midnight and we're sleeping until six or seven. That's kind of midway.

Martha: Okay.

Jim: All right. Friends, we must watch out for greed as well. Luke 12 15 says then he said watch out. Be on your guard against all kinds of greed. Life does not consist in an abundance of possessions. That is so true. We learned something 25 years ago. Well, okay. 24 years ago; that the more stuff you have, the more it owns you.

And the more stuff you have, the more it takes time from you, whether you're dealing with it or not. And it almost always goes to say the more stuff you have, when you go to use that stuff, it's broken or missing, but it just takes head time. The less stuff you have, the more contentment you can have. And so getting a bigger, better job that gives you more money so you can buy more stuff is not the answer to this.

Martha: Yeah, and I guess you know, really one of the verses that you also have brought up so many times in our marriage, Jim, is the verse on contentment because so often that's really what fuels this conversation is that we're not content. We're discontent, and we think that buying more stuff is going to lead us to more contentment when actually the opposite is true because we have more inventory to manage, more time taken away from sitting on the front porch and having a conversation because you need to go work on the lawnmower and I need to go do something else.

Jim: Now, speaking of the lawnmower, Martha ran the lawnmower into an evergreen tree a couple weeks ago.

Martha: Wait, wait, wait. Not into the tree. Not into the trunk. I sucked in a needle into the throttle.

Jim: She's messed up the throttle. Does anybody know how to adjust the throttle on a small push lawnmower? Send us a message because we're going to be doing that this weekend.

Anyway. All right. But the more stuff you have, it doesn't bring about contentment and also the more projects you have on your list and getting those projects done also doesn't bring contentment because Martha and I have been working on projects now for three years here in Marionville, Missouri off and on because we only lived here 18 months.

And we knock projects off and we always seem to find more and it seems like we're driven by our projects and that doesn't always bring peace of contentment either. It's hard for us to sit down and just read a book and sit on that front porch that we built last summer.

Martha: But we're also choosing to do things together. So we're getting that marriage time, you know, as we are building a wall or whatever the project. All right So anyway, you know, Jim, we're talking about the importance of protecting our marriage from our work.

 So let's talk about what else we can protect. And you know we have areas of our life that need protection for all kinds of different reasons and one of them is our digital life. And we have recently installed SaferNet on all of our digital devices. So Jim, tell everybody what that helps to protect.

Jim: Well, first of all, you know, in today's world, there's always bad people wanting to come into your computer and track you or take your information. And so we've been using a VPN or virtual private network piece of software on our computers for a number of years already, but it didn't have antivirus and it didn't have website filtering.

It just, it gave a little bit of protection, but what SaferNet does is it packages everything together. It gives you a virtual private network which really makes it so that where you are nobody can see where you are like bad people from the outside. And when they're constantly trying, like what we have found, we've got Cable internet in our office. By installing SaferNet it keeps the bad people out and our access speed to the internet's 30 percent faster. It's Unbelievable, the page refreshes.

Anyway, that's one piece it does. And it has 84 different website filters so it keeps the bad people out. It keeps you from going to websites where they're gonna destroy your mind, your heart, your soul, and your marriage. And it also gives you antivirus protection because there's always people trying to send you garbage that will cause you to destroy your life.

You know, there are ransomware attacks. There's so many different attacks. SaferNet does all of this. We encourage you to install SaferNet on your computers. Go to SaferNet. com SaferNet. com. It's going to change your life. It's really changed how we operate business and all of our devices have SaferNet on them, from our phones to our iPad, to our laptops, to our desktop computers that we use in a studio.

 So Martha, what are some of the symptoms of a work starved marriage?

Martha: That's a really great question. I mean it can look different for everyone, of course, so that's why we're just talking about symptoms, but some of those symptoms might include where you just don't even have anything in common anymore, where your marriage is so work starved that you don't even have time to spend together. You don't have meals together. Things like that.

Jim: What what's the one line we hear people say? It feels like we're just roommates. Yeah. Yeah, so symptoms of work starved marriage - not enough sex, not enough time just talking, no meals together, getting up and going to bed after one person goes to bed and getting up before they get out of bed. You're not spending time together. A work starved marriage is where work becomes more important than the people that you love that you're working for. This is one of these things, just listen to me for a minute. You get a job to pay for things to provide for your family. When the job that you have that's provided for your family starts to pull you away from the people that you love -your spouse your children, the home that you are buying with the money, the car that you're driving with the money, you don't get time in any of those things with any of those people - there's something wrong.

We've seen the stupid. This is stupid.

Martha: You know, I was thinking about another symptom is that when you really are living paths, different paths of life, your schedules don't align. You don't see each other. A lot of people say, you know, I feel like we're just ships passing in the night.

And that's a very big symptom of it. Now, you know, we'll talk a little bit later that sometimes there is a season for that. I mean, if you're a CPA and you do tax returns, you will be like a ship passing in the night for a season because of the industry that you've chosen to work. 10 weeks every year, but that doesn't mean that should be the norm that that should become the way you are 12 months a year.

Jim: And even that parameters around it. CPAs, tax accountants, H and R block people, you can't neglect your family because for 10 weeks, neglecting a family? I mean, a lot of damage can happen in 10 weeks. All right. So what are some of the things that fuel that need for more work and more pay? So when people they get a house. Okay. everybody starts off in an apartment or mobile home or something like that just to get started or they're renting a house or whatever and they want to buy a house.

So that fuels the need for more pay or saving money. So sometimes maybe you get a second job just to get the down payment. Then you get into your house and you're like, yeah, but Bob and Janie they have a bigger house. How cool would it be for us to have a bigger house? Martha and I, in 1988, bought a perfect little first time buyer house.

It was, I don't even remember, how many square feet was it? Like 1, 500, 2, 000? It was a nice sized house. It had three levels, three bedrooms, and three bathrooms. Really? Did it have three bedrooms? We finished the third bedroom and another bathroom. So, it was perfectly fine. But our friends bought a bigger house.

And we thought that's pretty cool. We could put our office in our home if we built a bigger house. And so we took our house that had a 90, 000 mortgage and we bought a new house that had a 220, 000 mortgage. And I know today you're thinking that's not much money. Back then a quarter million dollar mortgage was a ton of money in the early nineties.

And so we bought bigger houses. And then we bought cars that weren't paid for. And so we had car payments and house payments and now all of a sudden you don't have the flexibility to not work extra because you got stuff to buy. So the stuff that you want tends to drive that. Martha, go ahead. Jump in.

Martha: Well, I'm just thinking about, you know, today, a lot of us are experiencing just the pressures of the increase in cost of living. And so we already have a pressure to provide increase the cost of living.

Jim: You mean increase the cost of gas?

Martha: Everything - food, clothing.

Jim: Yes. Thank you to all of our government officials who have helped all of our stuff skyrocket, because of your irrational and irresponsible spending,

Martha: If I could mute Jim right now, I would.

So I think that it - what are the things that it's just such a pressure for us to just provide? It's easy to forget that provision may become more expensive in the future, out of our control. So again, just talking about this contentment and saying, okay, when I live within my means and I may actually be able to save some money and put away for the future. What a great thing. But then you also have cushion when there are things that are out of your control.

We live in such a consumer driven society. And really this, you know, this is not a show to talk to you about economics but it is in the sense that we need to make really good decisions because this is impacting our marriage. It's impacting our relationships. If we have no time to invest in the very people we're providing for, then we're not really providing.

Because things - I follow a lot of minimalists on podcasts and listen to their stuff and you know the thing that I really gained from all of it is if you don't have so much stuff to take care of, you have more time for the things that really matter to you.

Jim: All right. But some of the other things that drive this - kids wanting more stuff because they go to school with other kids who have more stuff, so they have the latest iPhones and they're in the latest sports, they're in, they're in volleyball. Well, now they're in traveling volleyball.

Now they're traveling all over the country playing volleyball. Why? Are they gonna be Olympic volleyballians? Volleyballians? No, I mean, just things like that. I'll tell you what, sports, kids sports also attack your marriage. Protect your marriage from kids sports.

There's also this temptation at work that you've got an opportunity for a raise. And that too may pull away. Hey, you get this big right now. You're working a 40 hour a week job and something gives you a raise. Not gonna be a manager. Well, it might require 50 hours a week and then you get an opportunity to be a vice president. Well, that's gonna be 60 hours a week because all the vice presidents have worked 60 hours a week. Just because they're all being stupid doesn't mean you, you need to be stupid. Maybe you can get the job done in less time,

Martha: but if a culture is set that way, then maybe it's time to free yourself from that culture.

Jim: Free your future before they free your future.

Martha: Yeah, you know, and those are hard decisions to make Jim, but it's important because it's not -we have to look at what really matters.

 So if we look at the way culture is in America. Yeah, this, how many people think back to their college years and their young married newlywed years fondly? And they're like, remember back when?

Jim: Well MercyMe wrote that song Dear younger me,

Martha: but remember, like, when we think about our apartment, we're like, oh, that gold shag carpet and we used to drink Kool Aid and we used to buy generic? I was just thinking about how cheaply we lived, and yet we think about it fondly, because we think about it and we're like, oh, remember it was so simple then.

Jim: Yes, we do, and life was simpler. We had one car, and we had one bedroom, and we had a TV that was from the 1970s, whatever it was.

Alright. So here's, here's the question. Have we ever seen someone who desired to destroy and hurt their marriage by working too much? No. No. Nobody ever starts off going, I'm gonna take this job so I can destroy the ones I love and alienate them for the rest of my life.

In fact, I'm gonna make so much money that when I get a divorce, I'll only have half of it left, but I won't have any relationships to show for it because all of the people I love will hate me because I ignored them and I, you know what I really want to do? I want to screw up my kids. So they have a daddy wound or a mommy wound, but they're going to have all the things that they want, but they're going to hate me, but I'll get to see him on weekends.

Nobody starts off that way and we don't want you to get there. That's why we're talking about protecting your marriage from your work. We know that working too much can hurt our marriage. We've seen it. We've even experienced it. There was a time when Martha worked christian retail. Martha, did christian retail demand a lot of your time?

Martha: Most definitely. I think retail - for anybody who's in retail - they know that retail is very demanding on an hour by hour basis. And we you know had to figure out how to manage that.

Jim: Well, it was Christian retail shouldn't that have been better?

Martha: No, probably not.

Jim: And there was a certain time of year that really was demanding. What time of year was that, Martha?

Martha: Oh, that would be the gift giving season.

Jim: Isn't every day a gift giving day?

Martha: The highest gift giving season, at Christmas time.

So yes, that was very stressful and you had to, you had to learn, we had to learn ways. Sometimes you would bring me lunch. Sometimes you, you know, just so we could get a little time together and be intentional about that. So let's talk about that for a minute. Before we get to the, the last part of the show, Jim, and just you know, what was it that were some of those indicators that work was hurting the marriage? Do you have any idea?

Jim: You got up before I even get out of bed, you got home when I was ready to go to bed, so I was already tired and cranky. We missed meals. Your kids go, Hey, there's a lady running around the house. Who is she? I recognize her. I can't remember her name. Stuff like that. So we're going we waited for an hour and a half and after school care, mom forgot to pick us up because she was working too much.

Martha: Well, that never happened.

Jim: No, it never did happen. But those are, you said some of the indicators and on my side, it was, I just got this great idea in the, in the mid nineties that we would sell cars to support our Florida habit.

So we could go and vacation in Florida, and it was - the kids every Saturday morning instead of then just being a play day at home, we were going to the car dealership to wash cars and to sell cars and and kids are like, do we have to go? And it was to support a habit that eventually moved us to Florida for 20 years, but now we're not in Florida anymore.

But it was just, it just took time away. We never had time to just sit and do nothing. Does anybody have time to sit and do nothing anymore?

Martha: I think it's a choice. That's what we're talking about. That's why we're saying. Every day is a new day, a new opportunity to make some new habits.

Jim: But I want to ask our audience, if you've got time to sit and do nothing, would you please send us an email? Jim@ iWork4Him. com Martha@ iWork4Him. com. Go to the website. iWork4Him. com. Click on contact us. Let us know if you've got time to do nothing. What do you do with it? Okay, Martha, you and I decided that we're going to be good stewards of things in the late 90s. We went through crown financial ministries.

We learned about stewardship. We learned about the biblical principles of finance. We learned to be good stewards of the money. We are not just tithing, but we decided that even with our investments, we need to be good stewards beyond just investing. But we decided to look at biblically responsible investing.

And because we want to make sure that we were investing in companies that didn't invest in things that we're fighting, the very things that we talk about every day on iWork4Him. And now we've made another choice another change in stewarding our finances. We're trying to vote with our dollars, which means spending our money with companies that support the same values as we have - God and country in that order. God and then country. Our cell phone is one of those changes we have made. Just recently we switched to patriot mobile, america's only christian conservative wireless provider. The switch, not only wireless, how about cellular provider?

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Martha: So, Jim, what are some of the things that we can do to reverse this course that if we feel like we need to get our marriage back on track and in the right place, what are some of those things that we can do? Let's talk about the good.

Jim: I think talking, just like you said, let's talk about it. You need to talk about it. If you are sensing there's an issue, just text your spouse, send them an email, write a little note saying, Hey, can we talk later today? I just feel like we're not talking enough. Start right there. The way to reverse course and any issue in your marriage, talk about it.

Martha: You know, I think about the fact that where we, when we got to a point where we realized we were too over committed, we made some really hard decisions and we cut things out of our calendar. The extra. They might be good, but are they where you should be spending your time? And there was a time where you sat on several board of directors, just 13 of them. You had to cut back on those. You you made hard choices. So making those kinds of decisions are not easy, but they're important if you're going to change the trajectory of your marriage.

Jim: But again, that involves talking. You get the calendars out, you talk, you have to work through, you have to be able to talk to each other. It doesn't really do any good to yell at each other, be frustrated with each other, because if you're frustrated, likely your spouse is frustrated, too.

Martha: Well, and like you said, you didn't wake up going, I want to do all these terrible things to hurt my marriage. It happened over time. So being able to say, okay, let's open our eyes. What can we do to better invest in the marriage that we have? How can we be spending our time? What decisions? We didn't mean to get here. But how can we start to remedy some of those things and having an honest conversation about it and, and being willing to give and take and to compromise?

So what other things might be helpful for people, Jim?

Jim: Marriage mentoring. it is great to have another couple in your life that's further along the road in marriage that you can access because they're going to have a perspective different than you on how to work through stuff like this. So I would totally recommend that you get involved in marriage mentoring. Get somebody to pour into your life. Get another couple in your life that would be helpful. Get involved in a small group. Going to church is great. It's great to get great training, but boy you need to be in a small group of other couples that are living life.

They don't have to be in the same place as you, they don't have to be older than you, or they don't have to be younger, they can be younger than you, but to just be in a group with other couples, but talking with each other is the most important thing.

Martha: You know, when you say small group, Jim, I just want to highlight the fact that the reason I think you say that is because in church, you don't really get to have conversations and be shoulder to shoulder with people other than sitting in the pew next to them doing life.

You know, seeing the hard decisions, the choices that are made, like you do when we say small group, we're talking about being in each other's homes and getting to know each other and, and seeing, oh, wow, they had a kid who acted up, you know, they're normal too, you know, they, they have the same kinds of issues we're having, how can we make those decisions to encourage each other and strengthen each other?

Jim: And we're not talking about Sunday school where one person is teaching and everybody's looking at that teacher. We're talking about sitting in a circle and living life together, having a meal, living life together.

All right. So why is it important to talk about this today? Because If our marriage is a mess, it follows us wherever we go, whether that's at work, whether that's at church, that's in your small group, wherever. If your marriage is a mess, you'll take it with you and it impacts, it impacts your ability to work, it impacts your ability to be effective in what you do. Not only that, but our marriages were meant by God to be a light to those around us because it demonstrates the oneness with each other and our oneness with God.

Martha: You know, there's very few places that people can go and have a good example of a godly marriage in their life outside of the church where you feel like you are going to see more of that opportunity. So when you're at work and people are watching you and seeing how you talk about your spouse, how you interact with your spouse, because you bring your life to work with you, you don't leave it at the door. And the conversations should revolve around the important things in your life when you get a chance to talk with your coworkers. So being an example to them may be the only chance they get to see a godly marriage. So if they see it implode, what is that gonna speak to, to the other things that they're watching in your life?

Jim: Well, we know what it says.

Martha: Okay. What does it say?

Jim: Jim and Martha can't make their marriage work. Why the heck would I even get married? That's why we have so many people today who have given up a marriage and they're just living together because their parents gave up on it. Marriage is hard. It takes work, but it's worth it.

As we head into our 38th year of marriage, it's worth it. But it's difficult. Of course, it's been way more difficult on Martha than it has been on me, but you can just tell that by listening to our podcast. All right. But we just need to remember...

Martha: Especially when you're a little feisty, like you might be today.

Jim: I might be a little feisty.

But it's important. We protect our marriages and our families from our work. You need to ask tough questions. If your work is taking more than 40 or 50 hours a week, you need to make some changes. Maybe you need to sell your house and move into a smaller house. Maybe you need to get rid of your lease on your car and go buy some cheaper car. Maybe you need to get your kids out of traveling sports and just let him play one sport every year, you know, whatever it may be, cut your budget so you could cut the time you have to work. Because if you alienate your spouse because of overworking, it'll lead to some estrangement, which if not worked on can also lead to adultery because you don't feel loved at home because your spouse is so ticked off because you're never there.

And eventually that could lead to divorce and alienating your children and causing them to have divorces. and alienating your grandchildren and so on and so on and so on. That's not where we need to go. Marriage is workable in all situations.

Martha: You know, and it's worth it. It is such a blessing to have a marriage that is honoring the Lord. And I just, you know, if, if this is something that is striking a chord with you, listener, and you want to talk to somebody more about investing in your marriage or asking questions, we would love for you to connect with us. Just go to iWork4Him.com/contact and there you can send us a message.

We would love to chat with you more, give you, we have tons of resources that we can help you you know, further your marriage and strengthen it in a way that honors God.

Jim: Great conversation, honey. Thanks for tolerating me today.

Martha: That's my pleasure.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

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Did you know that god has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books: iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him dot. Com slash bookstore. Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

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