6/23/22 - How to Live in Extraordinary Expectation of What's Around the Corner, Part 2

Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now!

Jim: You've tuned into i Work 4Him, the mouthpiece for the faith and work movement. We're your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Martha: Listeners, you are in for a real treat today in the conversation we're gonna have. And I just wanna cue you up a little. Get ready to call the listener line at eight six six seven one three nine six seven. Someone is gonna get a copy of the book we're talking about today, signed by the author and our guest today, James Barnett. And you know, I just wanna say this is it's fun because it's really kind of a little bit of a trip down, maybe your own childhood, if you had the, the privilege of going on any road trips as a family or your thinking about it now.

So the life lessons that can be learned along the way, we can learn from this book as well. And I think you'll really enjoy it. So 8 6 6 7 1 3 9 6 7 5 to get a copy. One person gets a copy of that book with signed by the author.

Jim: All right. So we're in part two of a conversation with James Barnett, the president of DaySpring online DaySpring.com. We totally encourage you to check out DaySpring online talking about his book, Blue Skies, how to live in extraordinary expectation of what's around the corner. And it's all about the story of his family and their adventures. But really what I loved about the book was how he took those experiences and translated them into leadership inspiration for himself as a leader.

Over 41 years at DaySpring - just a lot of fun. Get a copy of his book online at DaySpring.com. James, I wanna pick up, we, we closed the, the show last week up talking about Wall Drug. That was kind of funny. You hadn't even gotten anywhere yet, but you know, you're a planner. You love to mark out destinations and orchestrate wonder and awe in your kids and whoever else happens to be along on the vacation. But as a parent and a leader, you really aren't in control or as much control as you think about, are you really? How did your son, Jordan and your day at Daytona beach teach you that lesson that you really aren't in control?

James Barnett: Well, in, in the book, I have 21 what I call look again concepts or learnings that I've learned through life. And, and one of those learnings is what I call the facade of control. And Jordan was just three years old at the time. And, and Abby was nine. Nick was 10 and we were at Daytona visiting some friends. And for those that you don't know, they drive on the beaches there with, you know, there's, there's 300 cars out there on the beach.

The Daytona 500 was first run on the beach. Yeah, that's right on the beach. And, and so we were out there and, and we were with some friends. And basically the, the parking lot, we had parked and gone to lunch and we came back and my friend and I were farther ahead, closer to the beach. And Jordan saw us up there and started running.

There was a car coming at a very, very high speed. And my friend turned around, just happened to look back and saw Jordan coming. I, my wife and I didn't see it. We weren't paying attention. And he saw Jordan and he yelled as loud as he could, you know, Jordan stop at the loudest of his voice. You know, only God knows, right? God has a plan. It's not mine.

Jordan stopped on a dime and this car missed him by a foot or two. I mean, it was just, he stopped, and my wife happened to turn, happened to turn and see this. And it was one of those experiences that first of all, you just freeze you're you're almost did that really happen? Did that really just happen?

And, you know, it was one of those that just shook us, and our other two kids saw it and, and were just like, wow, just how close that was. And the rest of the day, I think we were all in a little bit of a daze. Jordan just went on and everything was fine. You know, he, he didn't think much about it.

He's he's three. He was just, oh, I I'm fine. I stopped. And, and things were fine, but I remember, you know, looking back on that during that trip, we, we continued on and, and was just that, that, that God, you know what, you have a plan and it's not mine. And this thing of what we think we have control of, we don't have control at all.

Our job is obedience. Our job is to look for him and his plan, and then, you know, I call it to watch and listen, and then obey to what he's up to. So that was really a, a lesson that marked me about, you know, we're not in control, we don't get to choose. And, and the reality is let's face it. I, I write about Blue Skies and I write about, you know, God is up to something extraordinary all the time.

Life isn't easy. There are challenges. There are problems. There are things we don't understand. I have had, you know, my wife and I, and our we've had plenty of hardships and plenty of struggles.

Jim: But never a shortage of greeting cards.

James Barnett: Never a shortage of greeting cards. but that was, that was the other part of, of my journey was this issue of, you know, I was, I've asked why God? so much, you know, so many times. But it was in my thirties, when I began to look back at my life about this: am I driven? am I called? I was really struggling with, you know, but Lord, I don't understand. I don't understand. And I really discovered I was asking the wrong question.

Jim: We're gonna cover that later. Save that one.

James Barnett: All right. I'll save that one.

Martha: But you know, I love this next conversation, we, I wanna have with you because I think it really plays into a lot of that as well. When you would travel with your parents, prayer was a part of the plan. Yes. It was on the agenda. yes. For, as per what you were saying, you know, So your parents prayed over car troubles and different things that were going on on the trip, and they understood that God cared about those very intimate details of life.

How did that impact you and your family? How's that played a part in what you've done with your adventures and in your leadership at DaySpring?

James Barnett: Well, you know, I think my parents prayer was just part of life. It was just like having dinner. It was just like changing clothes. It was, there was nothing unique about it.

That we're now we're just gonna pray on Sunday or it was this thing. It was just part of our life. So you, we prayed our meals. We, we prayed for favor. We prayed for help. You know, we prayed for God to bless our trip and, and my dad would always read Psalm 1 21 when we would leave right before we'd leave and pull out of the outta the driveway.

He'd, you know, he'd read that over us and, and, and really, you know, for, for his protection and covering as we, we travel. And so that was really, you know, a part of who we were. So I didn't, I didn't think and never question it mm-hmm , but it was, it was always, and I saw God and, and I talk about that in my book.

And one of the experiences when I was four that we, we ran out of, you know, our, our, our, I said that the radiator ran outta water and we were stuck in the middle of a desert and the middle of the night. And, and at those times it was all two lane roads in Arizona, New Mexico, and no one else was coming.

And so I remember, I just remember my dad praying. For some way, shape or form in the middle of the desert, he looked off and the moon was reflected on some, some water and he was able to go over there and had a, I guess we were carrying some gallon jugs with us or something and he got some water and brought it back and put it in the radiator and we were off.

Wow. But we were probably out there, my sister said two or three hours trying to think, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna. And it was just, that was in, we believe it was through prayer. We received what God had for us, but that was a normal way of, of life that, you know, God is at work and our job is to pray and to seek him.

Jim: And, and your dad taught you that God wanted to be involved in the intimate details of life. Yes. And as a leader here at DaySpring, that kind of insight is powerful because you don't have to make decisions on anything. God wants to be involved in all your decisions.

James Barnett: In all the decisions. Today, we're, we're praying over a number of issues at the business, the things that are going on. And, and we do that all the time. As my leadership team this morning, God is at work. Our job is to pray and to, and to listen. And as a leader, you know, the, the thing, the biggest thing you gotta really know is that you're not in charge. you think you're in charge. And yes, you have responsibilities. You have roles, you have leadership roles, but the reality is you is to really pray what God, what are you up to and how do we go about doing that?

Jim: You're listening to, iWork4Him as we talk with James Barnett, president of DaySpring online, DaySpring.com about his brand new book Blue Skies. Will be right back with more on iWork4Him. Hang on.

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Jim: Welcome back to iWork4Him. As we talk on location at DaySpring.com with the president James Barnett. James, you've been at DaySpring now 41 years, which is an amazing career in today's world. That's an amazing that you started as a marketing intern where you practically beg borrowed and stealed your way into being a marketing intern.

Was there ever a time where you thought you were done? Where you just thought maybe I'm done here at DaySpring? Was there ever a time you thought I'm, I'm gone?

James Barnett: Many times, many times, especially, probably in that first 15 or 20 years. There are times you're saying, Lord, is this it is, is this my time? And there are times when you're, someone's recruiting you or you're looking at those opportunities and you know what, every time. There was a couple of times I almost moved on. I mean, there was one time I really wanted to move on cause I thought it was, it was, I was gonna get paid three times what I was making.

I was gonna move to a, a big, nice, beautiful city. And, and I was real excited about some new adventure. And I've been here about 10, 12 years at that time. And I remember taking about a couple hours one afternoon and, and getting away and just praying and asking the Lord - Lord this as my dad had taught me and just just normal, just Lord, what do you think about this? And I, and I'd been through this conference at this point, I'd been this, are you driven or are you called? And so I was trying to figure this out. It was about three years. I was, I think I was 33 or 34, so it was three or four years following this. And so I was asking a different set of questions.

And, and so as I did that, I began to say, Lord, you know, I may heard the Lord ask me if you're, are you willing to serve me another year here if I ask you to? And I said, well, sure, Lord, I'll, I'll be glad to do. And then I heard him say, well, if I ask you to do this another 10 years, would you do it? And I thought, well, Lord, yeah, I, I, I would. And then I remember him saying, if I asked you to do this for the rest of your life, would you do this? And I remember just crying before the Lord and said, Lord, I, I'm not thinking that far down the road. I'm not, I'm not, you know, thinking about the rest of my life here. I'm just trying to make the decision.

I remember the Lord just saying, you know what now is not the time. I just want you to be obedient to the next step. And so I decided to stay and I've had a few more of that, but that was the most, I remember just the clarity that I heard from the Lord. He didn't speak audibly, but I remember him just asking me those questions in my spirit, as I prayed and was looking for scriptures to say, okay, Lord, what are you doing?

And for me it's, it's not been a I've just the, probably the last 20 years has not been striving. It's not been trying to see what else. It's Lord, what are you up to and how do I do what you've called me to do?

Jim: Well, and, and to that point, you start every day with a simple prayer. Yes. What is that prayer and how has that played along with that same leadership decision?

James Barnett: Yeah. Well, at 20 some years ago, I, I, I started this little prayer in the morning and again, it was after all these learnings and all these, what I call look again, you know, moments and these little phrases that have helped me is I begin to pray this prayer. You know that Lord, you have a plan today and it's not I've got a lot planned today, Lord, but you can move anything on my calendar, help me to watch and listen, and then obey. And I pray that most mornings, before I even get out of bed when I wake up, because you know what, it's that issue of, of, I, my flesh wants to be in control.

I want to be in charge you know, this and it sets my day fo:r God, today you're you have a plan. It's not mine. And so I wanna be obedient to what you do, but the truth is if I'm not paying attention, if I don't get my mind set before I almost get outta bed. And that even helps me as I get up and get my coffee and get my time with a, you know, some quiet time and devotion and, and, and scripture that sets my mind on, okay, God, today is about you.

It's not about me. And that prayer is it's simple. It's not hard. It's easy to learn, but it's been really powerful in my life to keep focus and to, and to really just rest into what God has now. Does that mean that I'm not busy and I don't have meetings and I don't have deadlines and don't have sales objectives and, and new products and new things to do and meetings.

No, you have all of those, but I, I really, what really helped me is, you know, Jesus's life, you know, Jesus got up and says every morning and he spent time with the father right? Every morning, but then what does it say? And then he went about doing the father's business. Mm-hmm right. He went about doing what the father said, he was following what God, even as a, as Jesus himself said, I only came to do the work of the father.

Right. And he spent his day doing the work of the father. And so that has been, you know, a good model for me to just say, okay, Lord, help me to get my heart focused on you. Get time with you in the morning and then go about the day. But it's your day. And you can move anything on my calendar.

Jim: Let's get back to some of your road trips.

Martha: Yeah. So I wanted to hear about, you know, I love the way that God created each one of us unique. And one of the things that is very strong in you is your desire, that love that you have for other people experiencing things for the first time and seeing the awe that comes with that. And so that actually led you on your road trips to start to invite other people to join. You probably wanted more of that. So what happened?

James Barnett: Well, as we, when we would come back from these trips, my brother-in-law and he was a really good planner, too, he did a lot of the, a lot of the planning and my sister and, and her two kids, her two daughters, their two daughters, and then our kids, we would tell people about these trips.

We were, you know, we would have our family gatherings and again, being, being the youngest of seven, and then with all the family members, you know, there'd be 30 or 40 or 50 of us at family, you know, get togethers. So we would tell about these trips. Well, others wanted to say, well, can we join? I said, yeah, get you meet us at, meet, meet us at Yosemite on, you know, this date, we're headed out there.

We're gonna go there and, and get going. And so we started playing these trips and bring other people along. And what was it fun and exciting is again, as we all began to have kids and, and get those big groups. We would go one trip. We were up in Minnesota and there were 22 of us on this trip. And a, a friend of ours had a, had a house on lake superior.

And so we piled in there and, and we worked out from there. Get experiencing things for the first time with these kids, when you can, you know, do do certain waterfalls or get out on the ocean or get out on the lake superior, which feels like an ocean. And you, you get out there, but see, there was a national park there. I, I, you know, Royale it's one of the ones out in the middle of the oceans, one of the least visited in the country, cuz it's hard to get to it's about a three hour ride on a boat out there, but we had to get that on our, off our list. Right. We had to do that.

But there were just so many experiences and you, when you see that happens the first time and that's the, and it really comes back to that. Look again is God is always doing new things and he's always, you know, full of adventure. The Lord is I believe, full of adventure that he is, he he's created good things for us to do and enjoyment for us to, to have, and, and seeing people experience those things for the first time.

Just gives me great joy because that's with, with the Lord, when I experienced things for the first time, just the awe of what God is doing and that, you know, it's like, I feel like I'm sitting in the grandstand a lot of times watching the game take place, and then I look, God, you're unbelievable. You're amazing at what you do and how you go about doing that.

And you never do it the same. Even the parables. You look, you think about it and then you can look at this in business. God just didn't do things the same way he did it. Different ways. So we couldn't have a formula. It wasn't a formula that, that, that God had. It was, Hey, I I'm he's he's, you know, owns not only the cattle of a thousand Hills, he's got a thousand ideas and a 10,000 ideas and ways to do things.

Jim: I love that. We're talking name of James Barnett who wrote a brand new book, Blue Skies, really just capturing all of the adventures in James and Marilyn's life as they took their kids and family members and other friends on trips with them. We'll be right back with more of our conversation. You're listening to, iWork4Him.

Make sure you check out DaySpring.com. But if you want to get a copy of the free copy of the book, Martha...

Martha: Yeah. Just call our listener line at (866) 713-9675. And you could be that lucky winner.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iWork4Him!

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And welcome back to iWork4Him, is for on location at DaySpring in Siloam Springs, Arkansas DaySpring.com, where you can get a copy of this brand new book by the president of DaySpring. Blue Skies call the listener line:

Martha: 866) 713-9675 will be giving away one copy of the, the book signed by James Barnett. But you can go to DaySpring.com and buy them for everybody in your family. What a great gift.

Jim: So many great lessons in here, James. This is, I really wanted to hit this because this is what, what hit me the hardest in your book was your story of your friend, David. He died of cancer in his thirties. You and Marilyn and your friends wrestled with this on a trip after his passing, you quoted your friend Dean in the book. I'm not gonna let the things I don't understand about God determine what I do know about God. What do you mean?

James Barnett: Well, during that time Dean Kerns was one of our founders and he was one of my very great friends.

He, his wife, Ruth Ruth was my wife's best friend. And then we had friends, David and Amy Brooker. Ruth had gotten cancer and passed away after four years in September of 92. And David had gotten cancer that year and passed away in February of 93. And during that following year, we, we were really wrestling. We had prayed over these people.

We had walked around the houses we had done, you know, a lot of those things you do, we do to pray cuz we know God answers prayer. Mm-hmm and yet the Lord chose to take both of them home. During that next year, Dean and I were talking one evening and, and said, Dean, I was asking why , why, why does God do this? I was in my thirties and, and trying to understand, and, and I remember Dean making this comment.

He said, James, you know, I, I don't understand why, but I'm not gonna let, what I don't understand about God, determine what I do know and understand about God. And he said, he said, think about a pie. He said, if there's a slice of that pie gone, I don't understand it. I still have the rest of the pie.

And I wanna really make sure that I I've seen God do miracles. I've seen God answer prayer. Yes. You know, wait, maybe, but getting that perspective. That really was one of those perspective times about, you know, what I have seen God do miraculous things. I have seen God, you know, answer those prayers in, in the yes.

Form of what I would like for those to look like. And then there's times when God doesn't and it looks differently, but that God is still who he says he is. He's still good. He has still got a plan. There's nothing that interrupted his plan. He's right on time, right on plan. And that, that phrase, that line really helped me through my time with David and, and Amy still one of our very best friends 30 years later. And, and we're just seeing God at work every day.

Jim: Well, and, and what I pulled out of it was you stopped asking - you learned to stop asking why and to start asking what? What am I supposed to learn from this, God?

James Barnett: Well, I think that's, that was one of the big pivot points for me is, is as I began to, you know, ask why, why, why God, why does this happen?

There's following that conference. There was a time when I began to think, you know what? I'm really focused on me. The why question really focuses on me, but the what question really focuses on God and gets my, what I call, gets my head up and gets me looking out, get me looking out to what are you up to God? What are you up to God? Cause the reality is my plan doesn't matter.

Jim: And your understanding is limited.

James Barnett: Yeah, my understanding is limited. So as I began to, to look out and say, what are you doing, God? I begin to live with a little bit more anticipation, right? The, the subtitle of the book at the excited anticipation or expectation of what God is up to is, is what's around that corner and, and learning to live that live that way helped me get that perspective and to keep out. It's not my plan. It's God's. And that was a big pivot point. And I, and I talk about that, you know, we have to stop look and listen. Right. You know, and it's so easy to get caught up in the looking down and not, and not looking, stopping and asking those right questions. And looking in the right places and listening for those right voices.

Martha: Hmm. So many great lessons. You know, I love the fact that on your road trips, you and Marilyn were really instilling a sense of adventure in your kids and other kids too. But you, your boys, Nick and Jason really loved the adventure. You were sharing with us even earlier, you know, the competition of running down the hill, the fastest or jumping off a cliff. I'm not sure what all you were doing, but I know we've done a little bit of that in, in Minnesota as well. One of your trips to Lutan Minnesota, you said to yourself...

Jim: where we went on our honeymoon

Martha: where we did go on our honeymoon. So you said to yourself in your book, this quote: helping others see what they can't see in themselves is one of my greatest joys in life. How did you do that for your boys Nick and Jason? And then how do you do that for the family here at DaySpring?

James Barnett: Well, you know, there's, there's something in, in us. God has wired us for he's given us gifts and talents and he's wired us to, to love him and enjoy him forever. Right. Mm-hmm . But there's nothing better than seeing people experience things for the first time and to see them succeed. And you know, that just, just this last week, my I've got my son and Nick has got two twin boys that are eight years old and they're, they're both playing baseball, but, but one of those boys is, you know, not quite as confident as the other one, but he he's got the talent.

It's that he's got it inside, but I've been working with him, you know, just taking him out to the ballpark by himself. And we've been working on his hitting and to see him finally hit that ball a certain way or do what he's trying to do in believing in him just changes his perspective and how he feels about himself.

And on those trips when we were jumping off cliffs and we were, you know, out in the, in the swimming in a little bit in the lake, just to see if you could jump in at 36 degrees. Yeah. And see if you're gonna freeze to death or not. And, and all the things that we were testing and trying and doing for the first time, not everybody does it the same, not everybody wants to do that, but there is, there is an amazing thing to see the joy, especially in a kid's life right.

A kid that, that sees that joy, but an adult that, that doesn't believe because those negative voices that we hear so often. We listen to those voices and we don't listen to that voice of the holy spirit to say, you know, I'm enough, you know, I'm his, I can do this and help helps me push through and seeing that happen in someone's life just gives me joy.

Martha: Mm. You know, I think like we experienced your Monday morning jumpstart, your devotion time with your staff this morning. And I'm thinking about that just in, in perspective of this, because like the theme was, I am special. Yes. And understanding that each person is special and God has created each one and, and instilling those values over and over again within your people that you have influence over and the difference that that can make, I just, I see that connection there. And that's so amazing.

Jim: This show would be incomplete if we didn't honor your parents at least one more time. What I love the fact is that for their 60th wedding anniversary, that went on one more adventure with you and your family to Yosemite. Talk about that, that impact.

They were so surprised that you had invite family from all over the country that, and you met 'em at the airport, but talk about the impact that your mom and dad had on your family, your legacy, really your leadership here at DaySpring.

James Barnett: Well, you know, that was a trip I planned for probably a year. I told my siblings, we had do one, one good, great trip.

They'd never been to Yosemite. And we had gone out there and seen that. And so we were excited about that. So I have a cousin that lives in Sacramento, so we plan to take him out there and so we, we, all the siblings flew in and, and cousins and about 20 of us again, and had a couple of vans and, and we all packed up and, and surprised them.

And, and mom and dad were 78 and 81 at the time, but they were still just as adventurous. They were still excited. And by the way, at Luen they rode, they were in their seventies and they rode those little alpine slide Alpine slide down at a mountain in their seventies. And I, mom was real conservative. She was real slow, but she was, she, she got on and, and that was true at, at, at Yosemite, they were still engaged and still exciting.

And, and, you know, they, they were always invested in other people. That was the other thing I I'd take away from my parents. And they were married 74 years in three months before they, my dad passed and mom passed a few years later. But they were always instilling, you know, belief and excitement of life and, and never just never gave up.

Their persistence, their perseverance, their joy of it was something bigger. They were always invested in others and it was such a fun trip to be able to invest in them and to just honor them and have the excitement of them being together with their family, which they loved the most and being with family and friends and, and our family was an extended family.

We had a lot of, they had a lot of other kids that would show up. So you know, our, our Christmases and Thanksgivings and all the special times were always a lot of folks there and they had a big garden, so they were always feeding us all the vegetables and the garden and those kind of things.

Jim: That's awesome. It's too bad you couldn't have just brought along the old Buick for that too.

James Barnett: I know.

Martha: There you go. So one quick question. Why the title Blue Skies? Tell us how that fits with all that we've been hearing today?

James Barnett: Well, when I was 25, I was going to New York for my second time, my wife's first time. I wanted to take her again, back to that experience, I'd gone up there for a trade show and I was going back for the second year and we had two kids at the time and my wife grew up in Wyoming. So we decided to drop 'em off in Wyoming at the grandparents and fly to Denver.

So we - it's in may, may the 21st, 22nd. And, you know, it's 75 degrees. We drive from Cheyenne down to Denver, spend the night at a hotel right there next to the airport, getting ready to go. The next morning, I wake up the next morning and I go out to get stuff in the car at five o'clock in the morning and it's snowing like crazy. I mean, it is there's eight inches of snow on the ground.

And the long story short, we spent almost five hours getting to the airport a mile away. We had to dig the car out and we had a mile away, a mile away. We were a mile hours, five hours before we got there. It was snowing. It snowed the entire day. We finally got on the airplane at 5:30 in the afternoon.

We was supposed to leave at eight o'clock that morning. The flight was leaving at eight o'clock and I was supposed to be at this trade show to set up that day, cuz it was open the next day. And it was one of those really frustrating days. I mean, digging out, trying to get stuff, trying to get to the airport, delayed flights. Couldn't see anything, it was just blinding snow.

And so finally get to the plane, get, you know, and get on. And we take off about 5:30 in the afternoon. And I remember this just as vividly as yesterday, you know how you do when you're flying cloud still snowing, can't see a thing. And we get up to about 10 or 15,000 feet and we pop out of those clouds and it is the most brilliant blue sky I have ever seen.

And it was just, you could see forever. And just in that moment, I remember saying God, we've had all these problems today for the last 12 hours, there was Blue Skies all the time. There was Blue Skies. God, you're always, you're always there. There's Blue Skies all the time in sunshine, but the clouds of life, we lose perspective.

We lose perspective and my, you know, purpose, you know, for really writing this book is to help people see God. To look again to get his perspective. Cause when we can do that, then we can love with that excited anticipation of what God is up to next? Then we can love with that excited and excited times of, you know, life and God is at work all the time and that when we see him at work, but we don't get that right perspective, then we look at ourselves, we start looking and we start asking why God versus what are you doing?

Jim: James Barnett. Thank you so much for being on iWork4Him today.

James Barnett: Well, thank you. It's been a, been a pleasure.

Jim: Blue Skies, how to live in extraordinary expectation of what's around the corner. What's around the corner by James Barnett, president of DaySpring dayspring.com. Martha, great conversation.

Martha: Loved it.

Jim: Yeah. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace. It's our mission field, but ultimately. iWork4Him.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast, with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

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