6/24/22 - Run Toward Your Goliaths: Dr. Eli Jones

Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the mouthpiece for the faith and work movement. We're your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Martha: We're excited for you to be with us today, listeners and I just wanted to, you know, give a kind of a shout out. Maybe your planning on doing this later, Jim. What the book we're gonna talk about today is published by the same or by the same publisher as our three books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him.

And so I'm very excited about that. Shout out to Highbridge books and just grateful for a place where books are being published that are really speaking into this connection of faith and work. And I just wanted to make sure I highlight that and remind you, you can go to our bookstore at iworkforhim.com bookstore to check out our three books.

Jim: Rarely do I read a book where I'm so captivated by the stories within - today is one of those exceptions. Eli Jones just released his well, I should call him doctor Eli Jones because when you get one, you need to be called doctor at least once on a show. Eli Jones just released his latest book Run Towards Your Goliath.

This is his story. Well, really the story of his life put in perfect perspective of the years gone by and the lessons learned from incredible people. The incredible people, God put in his path and from the opportunities God allowed him to experience. It isn't a story within that, that lacks hurt and pain.

There's a little bit of misery and fear thrown in there as well. Eli grew up in the deep south with a mom and dad who loved him and together they had to grow up facing their giants, but through it all, Eli had to learn to run towards the goliath in his life, including being the first in his family ever to get a college degree and eventually a PhD.

 Eli and his wife Fern have such a colorful story. I wish we could cover it all, but we're limited on time, but his workplace path took him to the hallowed halls of Texas A&M where football reigns, and God allowed him to be a major influencer for Christ. Eli Jones, welcome to iWork4Him.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, thank you both Jim and Martha, I was looking forward to this and I'm so glad we had this opportunity to talk.

Jim: So Eli, let's just start off with talking about where did you grow up?

Dr. Eli Jones: I was born in Houston, Texas my wife and I both. And I spent much of my teenage years in a very small town population of about 500.

Jim: Wow. That is small.

Dr. Eli Jones: From, for a big Metro area, Houston, Texas, to a small, small community. As a teenager, my dad had a sixth grade education born in Louisiana served our country, picked up a trade and then started a dry cleaners when he, when he left the military and I had a chance to grow up around this incredible entrepreneur who was just gifted with the talents to start a business, run a business successfully and sell those business.

So he at a very early age, retired retired at 52 the first time and bought a 200 acre farm. And he moved us. My, my brother and I my brother and me to Summerville, Texas, which is a very small town comparatively.

Martha: So let's talk about that just a little bit more, how your dad had incredible influence over your life as a hardworking entrepreneur.

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So, you know, I I'm blessed because I had an opportunity to, to see a role model mm-hmm , you know, in terms of taking certain calculated risks. And so you're thinking about being an entrepreneur for those people who are entrepreneurs, you know, firsthand what it's like to step out on your own to step out on faith.

And he certainly did. I mean, if you looked at his pedigree, he had a lot of strikes against him, but he was very determined and very faithful. To move forward. So I had a chance to grow up around that, and that has impacted me in, in very big ways. So I am you know, I'm not risk averse, you know, I've had a chance to see what can happen when you start and finish three different businesses.

And so I, I actually used what I learned from him in all of my career. So I was in sales at one time. You know, it takes a level of risk taking to be successful in sales. Yeah. Right. And in many cases it is sort of like running your own business. You're building your own accounts. You're building that trust.

In some cases, if you're paid straight commission you're in your own business, it takes no question about it. Right. So I, you know, I stepped into that role and then later I decided to come back and I moved into academia because I loved to write and I loved to teach. And that was just perfect for me to, to think about this career, but that took some risks.

So when I left my career corporate career and sales and sales management gave up the big corporate salary to come back and be a graduate student, again, that also took some risks.

Jim: Well, and we're gonna talk, we're gonna talk about that. I don't want you to jump too far ahead, cuz I wanna go back to your dad's determination, this his, his ability to get things done even when things seemed impossible. And I'm gonna jump ahead to a question I told you, I'd ask, you know, that story where your, your dad was running the dry cleaners and he found was able to buy or get a really cheap, a piece of equipment that he wanted a pressing machine for the dry cleaner. But he didn't have a trailer or a trailer hitch, but he had a piece.

Well, why don't you tell the story? Yeah. How did he get that pressing machine all the way across Houston from north Houston to south Houston?

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So we had to take the, you know, it was interesting. So I was probably 10 years old at this time. And what I remember and you could see the picture of, it's not the exact truck, but it's a replica of that truck that I rode in.

And that was my classroom. Riding with my dad, as he, you know, worked around the city, that was really my classroom. Also watching him at his spotting board as he was getting stains out of people's clothes. That was all part of the classroom experience to me. And my dad was a man of few words. So he wasn't really talk a lot, but I had a chance to observe how he did things.

So I had to an opportunity to observe him negotiating with a, you know, a guy who owned his cleaning business, who was going out of business. And my dad decided, well, you know, I wanna work out a deal and buy a piece of equipment from you. So we had to pull some of the parts, you know, apart we put some pieces in the truck, but what was amazing to me was my dad didn't let any circumstance stop him.

He was very resourceful and that's what you're picking up in the book. Very, very resourceful. So he actually found a, a, you know, a pretty thick piece of plywood. And he tied it to the back of his truck and we moved parts of that pressive machine across the city of Houston. Now I had a, someone who actually read drafts of my chapters that now let's see, Houston probably had a different zoning issue right, about that. So you couldn't pull that off today.

But you could back in the, yeah. Back in the early seventies late sixties, he was able to pull that off and we got the press machine back to his cleaner. And put it back to far, you know, put it back together, I should say. And he used it for many, many years. So I had a chance to watch him negotiate and be that resourceful.

Martha: You know, I love that. I love that. You said that riding around with your dad was your classroom, because I think a lot of people, we forget how many people are watching us and they're learning from our leadership or our determination, like your dad without really a bunch of words that taught in the process. So, so, you know, one of the, that I know that that just impressed Jim so much because it just, there's so many lessons there.

Jim: I've heard the sound of plywood being dragged along on a blacktop road. It's an terrible sound and you, it is. Oh yeah. And you're talking, you did that for 30 or 40 miles!

Dr. Eli Jones: I still hear that sound. and it was well over 50 years ago.

Jim: When I was reading in the book, I was hearing the sound.

Martha: And like you said, Jim, when you did the introduction, you know, the, your book run towards your your Goliaths is filled with stories that help people to really get a capture of what's going on. So let's just talk real quick how you got your degree at Texas A&M because I'm guessing from your vantage point at that, it might have felt like that would've been a near impossible goal.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, it was. So, you know, I'm a first generation, that in itself is a Goliath. To me, it's a giant for many. You know, and I the good news is I'm in the academic environment and I'm around, you know, a lot of first gens. In fact, 25% of our enrollment is first gen. And I love talking to first gens because I get it. You know, if you're the first in your family to go to college, you know, many times your loving family, they really don't know how to help you, your family members, right.

There's not an experience that they can relate. Right. And so I was real fortunate because I was able to start at a big university and navigate the campus and just kept going. I, you know, I had, I have a chance to talk to undergraduate students and graduate students now. And many times when you think about it, students come in and they want to declare a major very, very early on.

In fact, society today is really pushing students to declare early. What is it you're gonna major in. You know, I take a different point of view on this and I, you know, I, I have four adult children and and I tell parents now, you know, I think it's good for, for students to explore. I mean, this is the one opportunity in a lifetime where students can just take it a good sampling of what they could be doing.

And that was my, because of my entrepreneurial background, I, you know, my mom was our bookkeeper, right. And so I thought this is a funny story because I ended up being the Dean of the very business school I graduated from. And and so, you know, in our business school, we have accounting, finance information, systems, management, and marketing.

Those are our key disciplines. Well, because of my background, watching my mom, when I thought about going into business, the only thing I could relate to was accounting. Because I saw my mom doing bookkeeping work. Right. And so later on, I I told the department head of our accounting department. I was an accounting major for one solid half of a semester.

Martha: One solid half, either in or you're out.

Dr. Eli Jones: You, you know that I decided that wasn't for me, but at least I had a chance to explore. And that's why I think it's important for parents to give a little latitude to their students, to their kids, to let them explore a little bit. So I now have a grandson who's here at A&M.

And yeah, he's 18 turning 19 in August. And so I have a chance to tell him about my experience here in navigating the big campus and go and explore. Don't decide just yet because this is a major opportunity to really find your calling while you're here on this campus.

Jim: Yeah. And tell him, accounting is for very few people. We need those people. Okay. Alright. Let's close out this segment by talking about your mom. Yeah, she was a huge encouragement to you. Talk about her.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh yeah. So my mom, I always called her my greatest cheerleader. Mm-hmm so you know, you read in the book and, and I have a chance to tell you this.

So I, I remember speaking of trying to find my way during that time, I remember talking to mom about different things. Well, I'm dropping out of accounting and thinking about going over here and now I really love radio. So I might want to do journalism. I went through all of it. And I remember my mom saying to me, and I'll never forget this.

It was the way she said it, and I'm not gonna be able to do it any justice. But what it was was she said, you know, baby, you could be a clown. I just want you to be the best clown. Mm. That, you know, that is funny. Now, when I talk about it, in fact I had a chance to eulogize my mom years later. So she passed in 2015.

And and I remember saying this to the folks in the audience. I, I collected information from each of my siblings, the four of us. And I asked them, I said, tell me about the biggest impact mom made on you. And so I was able to share with the audience, what my sibling said, and then I got to my part and that what I just shared with you is what I, I.

And I talked about how the pressure was off of me when she said it mm-hmm it was baby. Do what you feel called to do. All right. Don't put any extra pressure on me. All right. Just be the best at it. Whatever that calling is, be the best at it. Later, my son, who was sitting in the audience, he came back and he said, dad, I heard you about the clown. So when you pass, I'm gonna be sure you live up to being the clown. I'm gonna put those big shoes on... Son, don't miss the point. We have that kinda, kinda relationship.

Martha: Yeah. That's great.

Jim: I think he got, I think he got the point. I think it's perfect. Well, alright. You're listening to, iWork4Him with Eli Jones and we're talking today about his book run toward your Goliath and we'll be right back with more in just a moment.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him, as we're talking with Dr. Eli Jones about his book Run Towards Your Goliath and it's really his story. Check him out. Elijones.com Elijones.com. Eli, why don't you give us just a little bit of a picture of your job journey? What were some of the places God allowed you to work? And I, and keep it short. We got a lot of stuff to cover, but yeah. What, what, what did, where, where did God send you? How did it work out?

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, oh, that's incredible. So I'll try to condense it down to a short story. There's a lot here. Of course, we all have our own stories. So I uh, I started in radio broadcasting. I love being in radio. And I had an opportunity to join a major market station in Houston, in my junior and senior years, as an undergraduate at Texas A&M university, I commuted 215 miles round trip.

Every weekend I pulled three radio shifts over a two day weekend. And I would finish off at midnight on Sunday, drive another hour and a half to two home. And I was back in class for an eight o'clock session. And I did that for two years and you know, I really enjoyed it. And I, the biggest thing that happened to me was I met my wife during that time.

Jim: And was she one of your fans on the radio? She called in to win things?

Dr. Eli Jones: No, no don't ever say that. She I'll tell you what, this is the, I'll tell you if we have the time, I'll tell you this real quickly. So her dad was in radio. All right. Which is kind of interesting. And we actually had a lot in common. And so her dad being in radio, he saw some things about radio DJs that he didn't care for. He was a general manager of a station.

And so when my future wife told her dad that she was starting to date a DJ, he was absolutely upset with her. He said, no, no. So I was, you. I was an undergraduate student, putting myself through college, a first gen that I was commuting back and forth. So she finally got that point across. But at first she was really adamantly opposed because she grew up hearing her dad saying don't ever go to a radio station.

There's nothing good there for you. And that sort of a thing anyway, that that passed. And so we got married and we got married very early, started having, you know, children immediately. And and then I, I had to grow up. I had to tell people I had to get a, a real job. That was a lot of fun. It was, but then I moved into sales and so I worked at a, a newspaper and sold newspaper ads.

I did that. And then I ended up taking a corporate job with Quaker Oats, Nabisco, and FritoLay in sales and sales management. After getting my MBA found my calling in during that time, I found that I really enjoyed teaching my sales people. That I got the teaching bug, right. And I had always been very, you know, studious, so to speak.

So I would read books and I picked up books around sales leadership and motivating sales people. And I fell in love with the research on how to motivate people to do fill in the blank. And so a lot of the research I do now is motivating salespeople to do fill in the blank at any rate, I was led to come back to a and M get a PhD, and I started my third career.

In 97 worked at the university of Houston, went through the whole tenure track process, became a Dean at LSU and was recruited over to Arkansas. And this is the best part. God brought us all the way back home and we've come full circle. That became the Dean of the very school, like graduated from it's an incredible testimony and is nothing but God to deliver that. It's really rare.

Martha: Well, let's talk about that because in the world of academia, we don't always hear about how God is involved in that, how he's not normally at the center of that. So what has been the path that God has taken you on in that experience?

Jim: And that influence that he's given you?

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's very powerful. I'm blessed to be at a university. It is a secular university. But if you do a couple of Google searches, you'll find the following one. We are very involved in the Christian faculty network. In fact, I've spoken to that group many times. And so we meet regularly. We pray for each other. So, you know, every other Friday we're on a zoom call and and we pray for each other.

We talk about each other's lives. So a Christian faculty network are very involved in that. We actually take out advertisements in our school newspaper. And we, and that newspaper will list the Christian faculty here on this campus. Wow. The other thing that you can Google that it's really rare, but we have a ministry that was started here at Texas a and M it's called breakaway ministry.

And breakaway meets every Tuesday at eight o'clock. We have a basketball arena read arena, it seats over 10,000 people. That arena is filled. With students interested in Christ. It is right here on the secular campus, kind of in the, almost in the middle of the campus. It's a beacon. That's how we, as Christian faculty look at it, it's a beacon of hope. We've got students going there and they're listening to very powerful messages. They're listening to scriptures. They're listening to the music ministry. It's very, very powerful.

Jim: Talk about your, the ability for you to live out your faith in your position? Yeah. Dean of the business school, correct? At, at Texas a and M is that what it is?

Dr. Eli Jones: Yes, that's right. May's business school.

Jim: So talk to us about how God has allowed you to live out your faith and be a major influencer there on the, the whole campus, but specifically within the school of business. Yeah. As the Dean of business.

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So let's start with the role of the Dean. So the role of the Dean of a college, it's the chief academic administrator of the college. So I was responsible for the faculty hiring, retaining. You know, you know, looking at job performance, et cetera, the faculty, I am a faculty. So I'm looking at working with my colleagues head department heads and associate deans. I also had the staff members in the college responsible for all of them.

And in Mays at the time I was a Dean, we had 6,500 students. So I was responsible for roughly 7,000 lives, 7,000 lives. At any rate. So when, you know, there are times when I was invited to speak to students, we have a lot of different leadership organizations in our college. In fact, some of them are Christian based in our college.

And so I had an opportunity to go speak to those student groups about Christ and about faith. All right. The other part is, and I say this, and I know we know this as believers, many times it's, it's not necessarily what we say back to what you said Martha earlier about the classroom. Not as much as what you say, it's how you behave, right?

It's a witness in the ways that we carry ourselves and people can sense that. All right. So I don't have to go into a classroom necessarily and bring my Bible and minister to them in that. What I can do is I can talk about leadership, servant leadership. All right. And I can touch on the principles that we have in our Bible that will help us be better servant leaders, right.

And I can finish an entire lecture before you're done. I'll have students coming up asking, are you a Christian? Just by the very thing that I said, by the very ways that I carried myself, they're able to tell. And that part, I think is very powerful. I had the same thing with faculty, other faculty, just watching, you know, observing how I behave.

You come to my office. I have certain things in my it's my office. If you come to my office, you're gonna see certain things in my office that might tell you I'm a Christian mm-hmm right. And so when people visit, they see that. And then as I mentioned, in terms of bringing my faith to work is what we're talking.

Then, you know, I'm part of this very visible Christian faculty network. So we, we don't mind bringing our faith to work.

Martha: Mm-hmm, , that's so good and such an encouragement for people that, you know, a lot of times we're afraid of certain institutions because we just don't know. And we, we. The Lord is asking us to live out our faith everywhere we go everywhere.

And you're doing everywhere in the position that God has you in. Right. You know, one of the things that I think might seem obvious, but we maybe just need to dig into a little bit, is all of these career, this whole career path God has had you on, you have had a faithful wife by your side.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh yes, absolutely.

Martha: And I wanna talk about the value of that in the success of your career, because It undoubtedly has played a role.

Jim: We're we're getting a chance to give Fern a big time shout out here.

Dr. Eli Jones: That's yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Oh, you know, we just celebrated 39 years of marriage.

Jim: Awesome. Congratulations.

Dr. Eli Jones: Last month. Thank you. We've been together for 40, as I mentioned, we met during that time that I was, you know, traveling back and forth to Houston as a, as an undergraduate. And I, I, I couldn't have picked a better spouse. You know, one of the things that we, I have in the book, anchor and float, by the way, this was a strategy that we developed in that we were so young getting started with the family, you know, quickly.

Four children mm-hmm and so we had to figure things out. So, you know, she became the anchor of our family. So we, we needed to do that. Right. And then I floated and I was the one, the entrepreneur float. As you see in the book, floated all over the place. I was letting God use me. And I was finding my way as I was doing that.

But she is the anchor of our family Fern Walker Jones. She's also a beautiful singer by the way. You know, not to self selflessly or selfishly promote, but if you go to you can go to Google, you can go to YouTube and type in Fern, Walker Jones. And her song, her first song that she released is dare to believe, dare to believe by Fern Walker Jones.

She's always been the one, you know, and I'm, you know, I looked, I like to take risks. We talked about that. Yep. You know, yet, if I were to look at our five fold spiritual gifts, I'm an apostle. So I like to start movements. I like to start things. All right. She's a prophet. All right. And if you look at, you know, kind of apostles and prophets together, You see that that profit is really more of an anchor, right?

So she's, she's the realist in my family. I come up with crazy ideas and she'll. Well, Eli, you know, you can't do that right now. You need to do these things, right? Yeah. So she's been that. And the other part is in all these moves she's always one who would be, you know, the slowest to respond. So look, I'm looking at this opportunity.

I wanna go back to school again. I wanna go to over here now. And she was always the one that still is always the one who says, Hmm, let's pray about that. of course let's pray about that. Yeah. Yeah. And she always says, I could say no to you, but I'll always say yes to God, amen to that. And she waits for, for that signal. That's inside of me to say, yep, this is, this is God working in my life. And she always says, yes, that is.

Martha: That's awesome.

Jim: We're talking to Dr. Eli Jones about his book Run Towards Your Goliaths. Check him out online. Eli jones.com. Eli jones.com. We'll be right back.

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Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him. As we're talking about Dr. Eli Jones about his book Run Towards Your Goliaths, you gotta get a copy of this. I am sure. Dr. Jones, are you willing to give away a copy of this book today on the show.

Dr. Eli Jones: I will. Absolutely I'll do it.

Jim: All right. So call our listener line eight six six seven one three ninety six, seventy five eight six six seven one three ninety six seventy five. I guarantee you will absolutely love reading this book. Be inspired by the journey that Eli went through, because it will encourage you in your own journey. Martha, what were you gonna say?

Martha: Yeah. I just wanna say listeners either mention Eli Jones or just say the word Goliath or something, because you know, we are blessed by other authors that give away books and depending on when people listen to this podcast, We may not know what book you're talking about.

So just leave us a message there and I will connect with you, but we are excited to be able to give away a copy of that to one great listener.

Jim: So Eli, at this point in your career, you are no longer the Dean of business at, at Texas a and M. You're still on faculty, teaching marketing, and you serve on the, on the on the board of directors of several organizations. Do Talk to us about your influence out there in the corporate world as a board of director, cuz that's a big position as well. Being able to take your faith out there into the boardroom.

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So I'm on a few boards now. So I am a trustee on the Insperity funds board. And I've been on that board now for a little over six years.

I'm on the board of Insperity, which is an HR outsourcing company. I was on that board for 12 years and stepped down and then I was invited back. So I'm back back with my family at Insperity, just a fantastic. And then most recently I was asked to join the first financial bank board, which is a big bank based in Texas.

And so in all cases, you know, I can tell you that you know, as I was saying it earlier, I, I just kind of the way I behave the way I carry myself it is a witness to many. But more specifically, I'll give you an example. I was at the first financial board's shareholders meeting, which was just about maybe a month.

And I was asked to lead the invocation for the meal. Nice. And I remember talking to the CEO and I said, now you you're invited me to give the invocation. I'm going to say Jesus. He said, please do . Absolutely do. And I did. And that was a crowd of about 1,800 to a thousand people, shareholders showing up for the, the annual shareholders meeting.

And I was able to do that. At, on the Insperity board I'm really surrounded by other Christians and that's, that's really powerful. And and you know, we are very cognizant that we're an HR company, so we're open, you know, ecumenical for this, you know so to speak. But I can tell you that I still carry my faith wherever I go. And I think people can tell.

Martha: You know, I would love for you to just take a moment and talk to people listening right now that may be pursuing higher education as their career path, whether they, that was their intention or not, you know, we we've heard your story and we never know what God's path is gonna be, but that listener that is really drawn to higher education and they also love Jesus. What kind of encouragement can you give them?

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, to be a faculty member and a person of faith, I think is just the best, the best combination. I am surrounded by, you know, very enthusiastic students and faculty and staff and students. And, you know, I've always said my mission is I'm in the business of transforming lives.

Mm-hmm all right. And I've had that mission for many, many years. It's on my LinkedIn profile, Eli Jones PhD. I've got I'm in the business of transforming lives. And so to be a faculty member where we are transforming lives, we do believe in transformational leadership. We do believe in taking people like first gens and taking them through a curriculum and then letting them go out and start their careers and be very successful and then donate back to the college.

Right? So that's all part of our, our whole life cycle, if you will. And so it is a perfect career for someone like myself. Who wants to transform lives when I'm teaching certain subjects and I teach sales and sales leadership, particularly when I get to leadership, because I believe leading is selling.

And I talk about transformational leadership. What does that mean? I talk about servant leadership and leading by example, and I draw on the concepts that are in the Bible. I may not go a classroom and quote the specific scripture. But those who are listening carefully, I'm giving these students scriptures to think about.

Martha: Excellent.

Jim: And you can give a lot of scripture without giving chapter in verse and they'll never there's right. They'll never know. You can quote nitche and you can quote Einstein, but you know, you quote the Bible. Oh, my word, that's awesome. Dr. Jones, we could talk forever, but we're out of time, but I want to thank you for taking time to be on iWork4Him today.

Sharing your story, Run Towards Your Goliath and just really sharing your life with Fern, the stories of your dad and your mom and your kids. At chasing you all over the country. Eli Jones. Thank you so much for being an iWork4Him today.

Dr. Eli Jones: Thank you for the invitation. Really enjoyed our time.

Jim: Make sure you check him out online. Eli jones.com. Eli jones.com. If you wanna copy the book called the listener line 8 6 6 7 1 3 96 75. You'd be listening at iWork4Him with your host, Jim Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's True. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and I retire to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

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