4/25/23 - Nona Jones: A Team's Health Reflects the Leader's Health

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd t Riley, producer of the iWork4Him Radio Program, the Voice of the Faith and Work Movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy.

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Nona Jones. Check her out online, nona jones.com. That's nona jones.com. We'll be focusing on leadership, thriving, and of course, related outcomes.

Nona Jones, welcome.

Nona Jones: Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is an honor to be here.

Jim: Well, Martha and I are super excited to have you here, and we just wanna, before we get started, talking about your leadership role and a perspective of what God is doing through you as you lead a thriving environment.

Tell us how you keep your, personally, how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ-centered each and every day.

Nona Jones: You know, I - it's very practical for me. I start my day with, with prayer and I start my day with reading the, the word of God and just really reflecting on the goodness of God in my life.

I think we all have those moments where the goodness of God is a bit blurry because things are so overwhelming or just so frustrating. And I use that time to help me just center and focus because I've found that when I'm able to reflect on and, and really anchor on the goodness of God, that regardless of what happens during my day, I, I find a, a place of stability and peace.

And so that's my practice every day. I start with working out whether it's a run outside or a run on my elliptical. And then I just spend time before the Lord and that is so necessary.

Martha: Mm-hmm. So let's talk about thriving for you personally. Like what does that mean to thrive? Either, what does it look like in your life, or how does it feel?

Nona Jones: Yeah, so it's interesting that we're having this conversation now because I'm actually, I'm preparing to keynote an event. It's a women's conference, and the theme of the conference is the Flourishing Woman. And when I looked up the word flourish of course one of the synonyms that was shared was thrive.

And that word, both words, essentially mean to prosper, to be fruitful, to grow, to be productive. And so I, I think to thrive really is in fact to be fruitful to have evidence. Healthy fruit. To have evidence of the, the good work that you've been doing. And I think when you look at nature - I'm a microbiology and cell science major.

I, I love science. I love just how God has orchestrated this entire world to work together. And when you look at nature there's one principle that is clear across species . It's, it's clear across systems. And that is that healthy things grow. So if, if a plant is healthy, it will grow. If a baby calf is healthy, it will grow.

You know healthy things grow. And so I think one of the clearest signs that something is unhealthy is when it stops growing and it starts to actually die. And so I think of thriving really as a signal that you're healthy.

Jim: See, and I'm wondering cuz I, I'm pretty healthy, but I keep growing and they say that that's not healthy, so...

Martha: That's a little different, honey.

Jim: Oh, okay.

Martha: Your cells are still multiplying and growing and all of that. I don't think it means grow in mass necessarily.

Jim: Okay. All right. All right. So, and I love that word flourishing because it is, that is such a God word cuz he wants us to flourish right here on this planet that he created for us.

Tell us more about how your leadership enables those you serve to thrive.

Nona Jones: First of all, I love this question because you know, even when I was, when I was preparing to speak at the Outcomes conference, it occurred to me that a lot of times we go to these leadership conferences so that we can, you know, grow, so that we can thrive personally.

But when we have been called to what I consider to be the ministry of leadership, what God is ultimately doing is he is calling us to be a conduit to help others thrive. And so I think it's important as leaders that we are healthy ourselves, of course. And I think we have to remember that the primary goal for our work is to ensure that the people who are connected to us, the people who are following us, that they're growing as well.

And so some of the, the tips that I try to use and I try to really think about is I check in with my team regularly. I have a pretty large team and I try to check in with each person regularly just to ask how are they doing? And I have enough trust with them to where they know that I'm not asking in a very surface way.

Sometimes we say, Hey, how are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm fine. But they know when I ask, how are you doing what I mean is, you know, how is your heart? Mm-hmm. How is your soul? How is your spirit? And the word of God even tells us, you know, I wish that you would prosper even as, as your soul prospers.

Like there's, there's a, a level of thriving that should happen in our soul. And so as a leader, We have to check in with our people. We have to make sure that their hearts and their minds are healthy. And I think that's part of the role that we have to, we have to take, and we have to be perceptive enough to know that just because someone is smiling, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're thriving. Sometimes a smile is a mask for, for what is unhealthy.

Jim: You know, that's why the Italian job has the greatest line ever, and I'll bring it up again on another podcast is that when you, when you ask somebody how you doing and they say, I'm fine, you say really? Freaked out, insecure, neurotic and emotional? Really how you doing?

Because that line, you can overcome that every time. It's a great way to use that at church, especially when you try to get deep faster.

Martha: You know, I was actually kind of feeling a little guilty cuz right when you said, when people smile I had, I had like thought about smiling in that moment. I'm like, okay, I'm not hiding anything. I'm really engaged in this conversation. So you know a lot of companies, a lot of organizations, they have to work really hard and try and fail a lot in order to get a culture that is a thriving culture. Besides just checking in with your people, what do you think you're doing right now that really has big impact in that area of making sure that your culture is a thriving culture?

Well, I realize it starts with me as the leader. I mean I set the tone, I set the pace. I, I create the atmosphere in which my team lives. And you know, when you think about going back to that idea of, you know, healthy things grow. And you think about plants and biological ecosystems, everything exists in an atmosphere.

And if the atmosphere is not healthy, it won't grow. So for example if I pump carbon dioxide into an environment that's filled with human beings, we have a problem because we need oxygen. But if I pump carbon dioxide into an environment of plants, they're gonna be like, yes because photosynthesis requires carbon dioxide.

And so as a leader, I think we have to be attuned to what does this environment need in order to thrive? So for example, with my team I set space and time for us to sit down and talk through what is everyone working on so that we can share learnings, we can synergize in those environments. We've learned that there are things people were working on where they needed support, but they didn't know how to ask.

 And so now suddenly everyone's aware and everyone's able to lean in and help them. But I think as a leader, it really comes down to creating that environment and to give a biblical context. So I think it's in John 15, where, where Jesus was talking about, you know, he's the true vine and we're the branches, and he gives the example of how if a branch does not produce fruit, then it gets cut off.

And then he says, but every branch that produces good fruit gets pruned. I say this because a lot of times we hear that and it goes in one ear and out the other. But if you think about it, oftentimes the same tool that's used to cut a branch is used to prune a branch. And, and that can be the tool of, of feedback.

As a leader, we have to constantly give feedback to our team - feedback that builds them up as well as feedback that prunes away the parts of them that are inhibiting their growth. And so it's not enough just to say you're amazing and you're awesome. Sometimes we also have to say, Hey. The way you showed up in this meeting really wasn't the best reflection of who you are. And let me give you some tips and some thoughts on how to show up better. And so that's the pruning side of it. And I think we have to, we have to do both.

Jim: That's a good word. We're talking today with Nona Jones on the Outcomes Conference Podcast, and we'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast, and today we're talking with Nona Jones. You can check her out online. Nona jones.com. Nona jones.com. Nona, the last 18 to 20 months been a little rough around the globe, certainly around the United States of America.

So much has happened to all of us. What changes have you made in the last year, personally or professionally that helped you keep focused on your mission as a leader?

Nona Jones: Hmm. You know something that I think I'm really trying to work out in my life that has become evident is, is compassion.

Like, having compassion for people. Cause I mean, this last, I say this last year was like a decade. I mean, it really, there was so much packed into it and frankly it continues to impact us in so many different ways. And I think when you, when you experienced so much, what I call kind of collective trauma, I mean, we've been traumatized.

We may not realize, but we have. When you experience that type of collective trauma, it's easy to get really frustrated with people. It's easy to be angry because you feel like it's unfair and there's just so much happening and you had all these plans and they got derailed. And so I'm trying to, to really seek God for the grace of compassion for other people. Because there have been times over this past year where I didn't show up in the way that I should have because I was frustrated and because I was exhausted and because I was discouraged and knowing that that impacts other people, it made me realize that I just, I need to have more compassion so that when, when others - I'll give an example.

I just posted about it on Facebook earlier this morning. You know, I, I landed back home at like midnight and I was supposed to get home around 10, 10 30, had all these flight delays. So, you know, I landed, I'm exhausted and I'm tired, I'm frustrated, and so I get in my car. I'm heading to the kiosk to pay for my parking.

And there was two lanes to leave. It was about 1230, about this time. Two lanes to leave. Well, apparently the lane I was in, the machine was broken, but the attendant didn't say anything. So I'm in this long line with people. We're just sitting there stuck. This other line is moving and I'm like, what's going on?

So it's raining, it's pouring down raining. I get outta my car, go over to the attendant. I'm just like, Hey, what's going on? Like, what's happening? And she was like, the machine in your lane is broken. You're just gonna have to wait. And I was like, What?? In my mind, I'm so tired, I'm so frustrated. And so I, I told her, I said, why don't you direct traffic like, you know, so the people in the lane that's not working can go too? And she was like, that's not my job. I don't have to do anything. You just wait. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I felt this anger start to boil up in me cause I was tired. But you know, after I got home and I prayed about it.

God was like, Nona, something happened to that woman that you don't know anything about that made her show up that way. Chances are she was supposed to get off work early. The delays of the planes made her have to stay late. She's exhausted and so she's taking out her anger on you and, and just learning to see things that way I think is really helping me as a leader to where I'm trying to lead with compassion and just trying to be more gracious to others.

Martha: Boy, there's so many areas of our life that we could really apply that to. I know that, you know, that's one of the things that I really I'm curious because we all are experiencing trials.

They look different for everybody. They feel different. The stress level is different. Some have had to change what they do and some people can't work. Right? So how have you, while you are dealing with your own stresses, kind of like what you were talking about with the airplane and the airport and everything, how have you translated that into like the kinds of challenges you're experiencing while you're trying to lead?

Jim: Like, like what's your greatest challenge that you've, that you've faced over the last 18 months?

Nona Jones: Oh man. I think the greatest challenge that I've faced is just dealing with resource constraints.

Jim: Shortage of plywood? Cause that's what we've been dealing with. No? That's not what you're talking about?

Martha: That's not what she means.

Nona Jones: Well, yeah, so there's, there's the physical resource constraints, but then there's also been constraints you know, budgetary constraints. There's been constraints on you know, my team and the time that they can lend to efforts and initiatives that I wanted to get moving.

And so I think that's been a huge challenge. And what it's done is it's caused me as a leader to have to recalibrate my expectations and just to make sure it's like, are my expectations realistic? Given the fact that these variables have now changed, like, we're no longer operating within these, the same, you know blueprint that we thought we were gonna be operating in.

Now that that's changed, have the variables changed enough to where I need to change my expectations? And that's helped me show up, I think as a better, more empathic leader to where my team - I, I had a situation with one of my team members who, you know, she was working super, super, super hard. I mean, super hard.

And she got to the point where she literally hit a wall. Like, she just was like, I just, I can't work anymore. And I told her, I was like, I need you to just, you know, take a few days off. And she was like, oh, but I don't have any vacation. I was like, I don't care. Just take the time off and just step away.

And I needed her to work. Like I needed her energy. She didn't have it to give. Right. And so as a leader, that was my opportunity to show up for her in a way that helped to refill her and refuel her. And as a result of giving her that time, she came back better than ever. Like better than ever. And so that's what one of the things I've had to learn.

Martha: Hmm. And that's a great thing that so many of us can find ways to apply that in our own lives. So was there something that you also have learned that was a real breakthrough in your leadership?

Nona Jones: Hmm. Yeah, I think I learned and this is gonna sound funny, but I learned that just because it's urgent doesn't mean it's important.

I had been living my life as a leader just almost glued to like, emails and pings and, you know, like, oh my gosh, if somebody needed me, I just like, I had to make it happen immediately. And I think over this last year, I learned that when I give myself grace and when I actually stop and evaluate, is this truly like important or is it just urgent?

It helped me to refocus and it helped me to figure out what was really important and where I needed to lend my energy. And so I started to kind of strategically move some things off of my plate that had been there because they were urgent. But they weren't important. And I found myself having, having a little bit more strategic capacity to think more even big picture because the urgent really has a way of like limiting your scope.

Like you're so focused on that thing that you miss the forest for the trees. And so I think being able to zoom out has helped me to be a much better leader. It's helped me to thrive personally and ensure that my team is thriving as well.

Jim: We're talking today with Nona Jones. Check her out online. Nona jones.com. Nona jones.com. We'll be right back with more on the Outcomes Conference podcast.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference podcast.

We're your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. So excited to have Nona Jones with us today. Nona jones.com. That's nona jones.com Nona, listen. You, you're studying - well behind you you got all kinds of books. Maybe they're decorations, but maybe you read 'em. What is one thing that you've experienced that impacted you so much that you said, everybody on my team has got to experience this as well? Something you've learned, something you heard. What's one thing you said everybody's got to hear this? Besides listening to this podcast.

Nona Jones: Oh, well listen, this is like top of the list, so that's, that's number one. You know I am an avid, avid reader, so I'm constantly reading books and I have to kind of watch myself because I will throw books at my team. So there's, you know, there's the work I do at Facebook, that's, that's one set of teams. Then I also have an itinerant ministry. That's another set of teams. I support my husband in our local church. He's the senior pastor. That's another set of teams. And then I have a nonprofit organization that's another set of teams.

And so I'm constantly throwing books at people and they're just like, stop it. I can't read that many. But there is this one sticky note that I have on my iPad. Excuse me, on my laptop that I will share with you because I push all of my teams to remember this. And it was out of Ray Dalio's book where he, it's a book called Principles and Ray Dalio was a businessman and he's in, in the financial sector, and he just puts all these principles in this book.

It's a long book. There's one thing that he said that just stuck out with me, and I, I try to think about it daily. He said The right answer matters more than being right. And his point with that is that a lot of times we get so invested in our perspective that even if our perspective is wrong, we don't wanna let it go.

And so we, we end up in many ways becoming almost like toxic in conversations because we're so just so wedded to our idea. And so I try to get my team to understand that everyone's perspective is, is valuable, and everyone's perspective is needed. And so the right answer matters more than being right.

It doesn't matter who gets the right credit. What matters is, do we have the right answer?

Martha: Mm-hmm. Boy, and that goes against so many of our grains cuz Right. We just wanna be right. And but I remember years ago...

Jim: because I am right so often. This is a, this is an argument we have in our marriage quite often.

Martha: Oh no. But we learned that years ago. You know, you can be right, but wrong at the top of your voice. You know, when you sit, when you're wrong with your approach you're, you're wrong. Oh, I love that. So you have a really unique perspective with your involvement with social media, and that's a, it can be a pretty rough and tumble atmosphere.

What area of ministry do you think is having the greatest impact? And that can be whatever impact you think.

Nona Jones: That's a good question. I feel like - and you mean in terms of areas of ministry having the greatest impact through social media?

Jim: Sure.

Nona Jones: I think be because there are so many people and we've seen it over this last year even more, but because there are so many people who. Deeply need connection and affirmation, what I've seen that has been just a blessing is I've seen ministries use social technology to, to offer that to people. There are some that are just throwing content at people, but then there are others that are investing in like seeing people and building communities where people can connect and grow together.

Building safe spaces where people can be vulnerable and say, look, Here's the challenge I'm facing, or you know, here's the trauma I need healing from. When I see tools and technology being used in that way it's really inspiring because there's 3.2 billion people right now on Facebook. I mean, there's over a billion people on Instagram and Twitter and, and all these places.

And I think a lot of times, you know, if we approach it as just a marketing platform, we'll miss the beauty of it. It really is a discipleship platform because it gives you access to people that you wouldn't normally be able to see or talk to. But the question is what's the mindset? And so I think having a mindset to help people heal, having a mindset to help people connect I've, I've really seen a lot of good come out of that.

Jim: You know, Nona, as we close out this, I love those thoughts. I don't wanna miss those thoughts, but I know we're running out of time. Thank you. You're right. Jesus was always busy, but never in a hurry. He never missed the people. And we need to do that. Social media is one of those places it's so easy to vomit on social media and - Sorry, bad, bad imagery, but, and miss the people. Those are good words.

All right. As we close out this Outcomes Conference podcast, the Christian Leadership Alliance is a place where leaders come to invest the best of what they know in other people. Nona, what leadership idea or thinking would you like to share as an investment in those listening to today's Outcomes Conference podcast?

Nona Jones: I would love for all the leaders who are watching this or listening to this to adopt what I call an additive mindset. So in math, there's, there's kind of two frames of reference when you think about numbers. Numbers can either subtract, they can either take away from whether it's through division or subtraction or whatever.

But then they can add to, whether that's, again, you know, addition or multiplication. In order to have an additive mindset though, as a leader, you have to really humble yourself. You have to be willing to discover the desires and the dreams and the hopes of your team, and find a way to lift those up as opposed to seeing your team as a means to an end.

I had for many years across my leadership journey, I had seen my team as a means to an end. I wanted to be at the top of the org chart. I wanted to have the, you know, nice title. I wanted to have the Prestige, and so I oftentimes would kind of use my people to build my so-called brand. And I ended up being a reductive leader.

I had people that left my team because they felt used. They felt like I didn't care about them. But I think becoming an additive leader it gave me the ability to add to people. So they left my leadership feeling like they had grown. And that goes back to the thing I said at the very top of our conversation, healthy things grow.

You can't create a healthy culture being a reductive leader. And so I would ask that leaders adopt a posture of humility and just being willing to be the vessel that God can use to be a blessing to the people that you have the privilege of serving.

Jim: Hmm. Those are good words.

Martha: Great words. Thank you for that takeaway.

Jim: Reductive Leader. I never heard that term before. Just toxic. I've heard toxic, but reductive. I like that, Nona.

Nona Jones, thanks so much for being on the Outcomes Conference podcast today. You're a blessing. It was great to hear you at the conference, and it was great to spend some more time with you today. Thank you.

Nona Jones: Thank you so much.

Jim: Make sure you check her out online. Nona jones.com. Nona jones.com.

Did you

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