iRetire4Him Show 113: Combating Your Pastor's Loneliness

Jim Brangenberg: Did you know that when you retire your calling didn't retire? If you've got a pulse you've got a purpose. It's just so important. God's not done with you yet. If you're still here, there's still stuff for you to do. I know you know what you retired from, but what did God have you retired to? What does he have next for you in your retirement? We're going to talk about that today. There's a mission we're going to give you today.

You've tuned into iRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, the founder of the Retirement Reformation joins us. And he's going to walk through retirement with you and encourage you and give you all kinds of resources out there on our website, retirement reformation. org, retirement reformation. org. And I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg.

Seniors are lonely. Church pastors are lonely. Business leaders are lonely. All this loneliness and what can we do about it? Today, we continue on a three part series about putting our retired selves into action to eliminate loneliness in our retired friends, our church pastors, our local leaders of businesses and organizations. All this loneliness and the solution has been there all along- the retired Jesus following folks of america. I'm going to suggest somebody starts this organization. Maybe it's a subset, Bruce, of the Retirement Reformation - the RJFFA. It's here to the rescue!

Bruce, with all the loneliness that's out there, I just am astounded at how much we've got a solution. We just need to get it in front of people. Tell us about Life Action. You just recently spent some time in Michigan with the Life Action folks. How is Life Action solving some problems for the lonely seniors and pastors in our lives?

Bruce Bruinsma: Life Action is a ministry, been around for over 50 years, and the genesis of it was a passion to be able to bring revival to churches. So over the last number of years, they have brought teams to churches to bring revival into about 7, 000 churches. It is fantastic.

And it's a very intense either four day, eight day or 11, 12 day event for a church to put on. And Life Action will bring a team of up to 25 or 30 people to be able to work with the young people, be able to bring both music and message to the congregation. One of the things that I found of interest as I've connected with them, they came to our church and that was about five years ago. And that was how I first connected with them, to be able to see their passion and their interest in addressing the issues of bringing meaning and purpose, and that bringing meaning and purpose by definition then drives out loneliness.

One of the things that I spent the last week with their staff in Michigan is as we explored ways to be able to bring the message of the Retirement Reformation to the older generations of the churches that they go to, not just the younger ones. As we explored and talked about what does that look like? And why is that important? And what does it mean?

One of the things that it means is that there is a resource that the church is missing, and that is the experience, the time, and the financial resources, but the experience and the time, the wisdom of seniors in the congregation that can in fact come together in community. So here's a new thought. The new thought is this, is that when we're looking at addressing issues of loneliness, it's not necessarily and often is not best done in a one to one relationship. While it certainly can be done that way, but in fact, being able to do it in community, to be able to bring together the resources that God has put into each person, to be able to bring those together, to be a supportive community, to bring messaging and to bring new areas of hope and meaning and purpose to the community where the church is located, members of the church itself, and to be able to answer the question, how can the church bless the community?

When a church is blessing the community, the pastor is going to be engaged because what is it that most pastors want? They want to see more people brought to Christ, maturing in their faith, and then taking steps to make a difference. When that's not happening, man, it really gets lonely. And so there's a community perspective that I really didn't have before that Life Action represents and is in the process of coming together to be able to expand their ministry.

Jim Brangenberg: You said so many things but meaning and purpose drives out loneliness. That's a good line. That could be the title of our next three part series.

All right. So pastors are lonely and we just talked about pastors are lonely. They just, they operate in a sea of people and yet most of those people look at them differently than one of their other friends. They get treated, they don't get ostracized, but they get, they're in such a bullseye all day long. They're always on alert because they're always worried about what someone else is going to say. And it's just hard for them to be real. Have you ever talked to a lonely pastor, Bruce?

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, lots of times. In my prior life, I gave leadership to a financial ministry that provided retirement plans to pastors and staff of a couple thousand churches. I was always amazed when I would have a conversation with the senior pastor, whether it be a small, medium or large church didn't seem to matter, and as a result of that conversation they were able to divine that I was a trusted resource. And the conversations that we would have about what it is, what the challenges are that they were facing, the the relationships where they were struggling and the attitudes of people.

And they would just simply open up to me. And I realized they didn't have anybody to talk to because why would they be talking to me? I was an arm's length trusted advisor. And so it was such a, over all those years, I would guess that there would be one of those kinds of conversations at least monthly and sometimes more often.

And it would be with people often that I'd never met them. And we're talking about retirement plans for money. And one of the things I'd ask them would be, what are the three biggest challenges you and your church are facing now? What an easy question, but what a critical one in terms of being open to what the answers are.

And then the net result of that, to whatever those are, and the conversations we would have about them to be able to say, would it be okay if we prayed together about those three things? And they don't have anybody to pray with them. And so we would pray together. And in the, in those prayers of what the pastor would share and what God, the Holy Spirit, would put on my heart to, to talk about or to pray about, seemed to make a really huge difference.

And so each one of us has the opportunity to be that kind of a friend. Just add one more thought: you're lonely. Typically what that says is that I don't have any good friends. And then I open up to the book of John and where Jesus said if I am in you and you are in me, that in fact, you are not a servant, but you are a friend. And so we all have the opportunity to have a friend in Jesus. And I'm afraid we've got maybe 48 million folks that have forgotten that.

Jim Brangenberg: When we come back, we're going to talk with Ed Villalba from lifeaction. org. I can't wait for you guys to hear more about Life Action. And then we're going to finish up this conversation about pastors and loneliness and what we as seniors can do to stop some of this stupid loneliness in each other, in business owners, and in pastors. We all have so much to offer. You've been listening to iRetire4Him, we'll be right back.

Jim Brangenberg: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, as we're talking and continue to talk about what causes pastor's loneliness and what causes business people loneliness? And what causes seniors to have loneliness? And what they can all do to work together to solve that problem? Bruce, in the second segment, you've got a special guest from an organization that focuses on this issue. Bruce, Who do you have for us today?

Bruce Bruinsma: I'm so pleased to to bring to you my friend Ed, and we had an opportunity to spend some significant time together actually last week at the headquarters of Life Action. And so for me to be able to not just understand intellectually how they minister to so many groups of people, but also particularly and uniquely to pastors, but to spend time with Ed and to really understand both his heart and the issues that he deals with in supporting pastors in the pastoral retreats that they have.

So Ed, just give us a quick executive summary, if you would, of how God led you in your path over the years now to be in the position to be able to impact pastors lives through the ministry of Life Action.

Ed Villalba: It of course started at birth, but then at age 12, my mother asked me what I wanted to do. And I said, I want to serve God the rest of my life. At age 16, after coming to Christ and studying the Bible, I visited a little Baptist church in Taylor, Michigan, and went into the prayer room, sat there, and the pastor came in and introduced himself, introduced me, I to him, and he said, so how can I help you?

And I said, I'm not sure, and he opened his Bible to 1st Timothy chapter 3 and my eyes focused on the word bishop. And I said, that's what I want to be. And he said, do you understand what that is? And I said, I don't have a clue, but I said, I believe that's what God wants me to be. And so he introduced me to some language about being a shepherd to pastors and leaders and Christian leaders. And that's the trajectory that God has led us on through my college careers, into ministry, getting married, and we'll now celebrate this June, our 60th year in marriage, 59 years of ministry all in the area of serving and loving pastors.

And over the last 17, 18 years now at Life Action I've been the director of pastoral care at our lodge facility. And we've seen probably a little over a thousand pastor couples from all around the country, 40 states, four provinces in Canada, some foreign countries, missionaries who have come to the lodge. And we are just simply there to encourage them, to love them, to walk alongside them, to pray with them, to weep with them, to hear their stories, and be of whatever encouragement we can.

For my wife and I, we've had a jagged journey in the ministry, both in the pastorate, the lead pastorate, the associate, and so on. And not that I feel well equipped to minister to the pastor, but I have a heart that I think bleeds for them and just the burdens, the cares, and the concerns that they have, the isolation that they feel, the silo of their ministry. The lack of accountability and friendships and the lack of maybe a content of really who they can trust or that kind of a situation, because many of them have come to the lodge. They come discouraged, burnt out, ready to quit. They've either been through a transition, they're thinking about a transition, or they're post transition.

And they're just wondering what's now new for me or what's left? And so just listening to their stories, hearing their heartbeat, and realizing, as you said, as long as we have breath, God isn't done with us. And so it's just at that point to encourage them to finish well.

Bruce Bruinsma: It's a wonderful ministry. If you were able to make a video, and the video was played for all the seniors in all the churches in, let's just say in the U. S. or the U. S. and Canada, and you had a message to them about how they could care for their pastor in a way that would increase the vitality of their life, the longevity of their ministry, and would serve their soul, what would be that advice to them in order to help their pastor to do that?

Ed Villalba: I would definitely say, Bruce, that they probably need to encourage their pastor to come alongside him and embrace the call and the commission that God has on his life because ultimately, according to Hebrews, he has an accountability before the Lord that they do not have as people. And as leader and as shepherd of that flock, he'll have to appear before the Lord and give an account.

So I think it is just it would behoove them to just understand that he's human, that he's growing, he's vulnerable, he's teachable, that he can be approachable, but understanding that just like they as individuals who may have experienced various kinds of hurts in their life, he's a pastor. He's probably experienced hurts and wounded and comes into the ministry somewhat scarred.

Bruce Bruinsma: One of the things that - let me ask you this question. Let's say that a pastor has been at a church for, I don't know, let's just say five years and appears that will continue to minister there for some period. Where in that process would it be helpful for a group of seniors to say to that pastor and perhaps support it to have him come to a retreat, for example, that you're doing at Life Action or other ministries throughout the country that it can give encouragement to pastors? Should it wait until they're ready to retire or they're post retire? Or do you think there's a valuable role in mid ministry for that rejuvenation and for that encouragement and for that opportunity to be real?

Ed Villalba: I think it would be vital for them to come alongside and understanding maybe the extent of their personal lives in their involvement in that church to say, to ask the pastor, what is your vision for us? And where would you see that I can fit in that vision of serving the Lord and coming alongside to be your Aaron and your Hur to hold up your hands in ministry?

Bruce Bruinsma: When we did most churches at the end of the service on a Sunday morning or whenever it would be Saturday night or even a Friday night, as the case may be, the pastor usually then goes into the narthex or into there and greets the people. And I know a lot of people really appreciate just shaking the pastor's hand and receiving that word of encouragement. I would suggest that, in fact, as seniors, we can reverse that and we can shake that pastor's hand and be of encouragement to him or to her, and to them the wives obviously play an absolutely critical role.

We just really appreciate your years of ministry and the ministry years that are ahead and would look forward to connecting back up with you. Jim, do you have a question for Ed that would be helpful?

Jim Brangenberg: Ed Villalba, before we let you go, from lifeaction. org, here's my question. The reason a lot of pastors, this is the ones that I've known in my short 57 years, the reason they're lonely is that they can't be real from the pulpit. They can't share the issues that they're struggling with, otherwise they might get fired. That when they get real, people go, wow, if our pastor's struggling with that, time to get a new one.

 Have you really found a church, the way you described it, have you really found a church in America that lifts up their pastor, that respects their pastor, that protects his marriage and his family, that protects his mission, but makes sure that he doesn't work more than 40 or 45 or 50 hours a week?

Have you found that church where the people, the congregation there to lift up the pastor as much as he is to lift up them?

Ed Villalba: I would say, Jim, there are some not many, not all certainly. Some churches and people who are just a real encouragement, and as Bruce said, when he meets at the narthex, not only just saying that was a good message, but then sharing with him how that message has touched their heart, but also in, I think for the pastor, I've read and heard this, that pastors live in three stages.

The front stage, the backstage and the offstage. And what the people see mostly is the onstage part of a pastor's life, and they don't get a good look at the backstage, maybe where he's really living. And I think pastors should be and need to become really vulnerable and open and honest. Not necessarily to bleed every Sunday all over the people to share their hurts and pains, but to allow them to know that he's just as human as they are. And get away from maybe the false image that's some portray of just being this perfect individual.

Jim Brangenberg: Can a pastor lean on some of the seniors in his or her congregation, or a pastor and his wife, lean on a senior couple in their congregation safely, where that senior couple can become that platform for feedback, platform for encouragement?

Have you seen that work where a couple within the congregation can safely provide that to the pastor and his or her spouse?

Ed Villalba: Yes, we have. And I think that comes through education, Jim, of the pastor to the people, breathing into them the word of encouragement as to what they need, that they need some degree of friendship or accountability or some advocate to be in their life. And inviting some of those to become an advocate and a friend and an associate with them as well. And I think being careful in that whole area. And I think that's where real wisdom comes in from the pastor in just discerning with whom can he walk alongside, with whom can he share burdens, with whom can he really be honest, vulnerable, and trust?

But do they need that? Yes. Can some people become that? Yes, because they have maybe more wisdom than that pastor has and inviting them to share that with them.

Bruce Bruinsma: I remember when when I was growing up, and in the church that I grew up in that, that each Sunday evening after the Sunday evening service, there would be a group of folks get together and they had essentially two, two primary roles. One was to critique the message and the other one was to critique the pastor. And I remember listening to those conversations and going, there's something wrong with this. Because we all need to have a friend in Jesus. Ed, we could go on with this conversation significantly longer, and I'll look forward to the next time we do that, both in person and here.

So thank you so much for your life. Thank you for the priority that God has put in you and your wife's heart to make a difference in these, in pastor's lives. And we know that there is many more lives yet to be touched. So thank you for joining us today. We really appreciate it.

Ed Villalba: Thank you, Bruce. And thank you, Jim.

Jim Brangenberg: You bet. And make sure you check it out online. Life Action. org Life Action. org. We'll be right back with more conversations about how do we help our lonely pastors and lonely business owners? How do we as seniors get in the game?

Jim Brangenberg: Hey, welcome back iRetire4Him and the incredible conversation we're having about pastors and loneliness and what Ed Villalba just had to say. Bruce, what a great conversation. Lots of back and forth there. The fact that Life Action is out there fighting for pastors to just give them some stability. It's crazy. This seems like a dumb question, but Bruce, based on your experience ministering to pastors for decades, helping them with the retirement plans of their mission, their ministry organizations, does loneliness in a pastor impact their ability to do the ministry they've been called to do?

Bruce Bruinsma: Clearly it does. And it's, that would come as no surprise to any of our listeners, when you are feeling detached from the rest of God's world, then in fact, you don't have the wisdom and the guidance to be able to navigate through it. Let me just bring up the issue of that will be addressed and I'm sure we'll do another series on it. But in the next book that is coming out called, Walking with the Fruits of the Spirit, as we think about how we as seniors can impact the lives of those who we care about with our families and so on, but with our pastors, because most of us, we do care about them and often feel detached from how we can make a difference.

And let me just suggest that the power of the Holy Spirit inside of us can be and is and will be the guide that tell us how we can be of support to them. And so as we look through, if there's something that I'm about to make an observation about to the pastor, is it done through the lens of love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and gentleness and self control. Or am I just being a loud mouth jerk?

And so we have within us as seniors to be able to find the pathways or meaning and purpose for ourselves. So our world does not shrink, but then just as importantly, we have the opportunity to be able to take those fruits of the spirit and be able to package them in community with others, to be able to support those who God has called to lead us or who are providing leadership to others.

Jim Brangenberg: So let's get very specific here in the end of this podcast, Bruce. We're talking to seniors. We're saying, hey, you seniors, everybody listening. Listen up. Listen up. Hang on a minute. Just listen up. You're the solution to this problem. You can help eliminate loneliness in other seniors.

You can help eliminate loneliness in pastors. You can help eliminate loneliness in business owners and leaders in your community. Bruce, let's give them specific things to do how they can eliminate loneliness in their pastor of their local church. What are some ideas you have? I got a couple of my own too.

Bruce Bruinsma: One of them I think is that, I think I mentioned it earlier, but that the desire of most pastors that I know is that their church will grow spiritually, grow numerically, grow relationally, grow as a blessing. And so as a senior, if three or four seniors who have business experience, ministry experience, other experience, come together and together say, what could we do that would impact the renewal or the growth of this congregation? And listen to what the Holy Spirit says. Then meet with the pastor, have breakfast. And say, we've been praying about this.

Jim Brangenberg: Buy the church Pastor breakfast. Don't ask him to pay. I know that may go without saying and I don't take him to Lenny's. Take him to a nice breakfast place, like what's that place out there by you that take makes that hazelnut bread? That kneaders. Take him to kneaders cafe. Oh, that's a good place.

Bruce Bruinsma: But at any rate and say to him, you know We believe that God has called us to be an assistance to you to for renewal of our church and the growth of our church. Here are some of the thoughts that we have. What do you have? How can we partner with you to be able to bring that reality to this congregation?

And so to have the seniors say that, who typically are people who the church sets aside and says, don't bother us, or are the ones who are complaining about the music or whatever it may be, but to be able to come with not only a positive message, but hands and hearts and some skills and abilities, to be able to help in that renewal and that, in that growth.

Let me just add one more thing. One of the things that most pastors don't realize is one of the great growth opportunities for the church is with the seniors that are in the community that aren't going to any church. And the degree to which you can bring them in and then they are part of that growth option and what they can bring and do.

And most of them, frankly, would come back to the church or come to the church if they thought there was meaning and purpose for them there. So there's the context for the conversation with those seniors and the pastors that can make a difference. So there's one thought.

Jim Brangenberg: All right. So here's the thought I've got. I always tend to. I just have seen so many pastors struggle. And here's the deal as seniors, I technically I qualify as a senior. I'm over 55. My kids are gone from home I'm semi. No, i'm not semi retired. I'm as semi retired as Bruce Bruinsma, but so that means I still work 40 or 50 hours a week.

Go up to the pastor say listen. What do you need? Do you need a date night? Because a lot of, there are pastors still have kids at home. Do you need a date night? Do you need some babysitting? Do you need, what do you need at home? Is there something, because a guy like me, I could go up to somebody's house and say, do you have stuff you need help fixing? Because I can fix almost anything in a house, almost anything, not tile. I haven't done tile yet. All right. But say, what do you need? Because a lot of times pastors are academics and they're very smart, but a lot of times they're not real handy.

Bruce Bruinsma: And that's, yeah, I suppose you can't really do that categorically. That's an absolutely great point. I think there's a whole series of things that, that could be done where they could be supported.

Jim Brangenberg: Yeah. All right. Watching the kids so they can have a date night, facilitating them have a date night, giving them money so they can have a date night, cuz you know you can't go on a date night anymore for under a couple hundred bucks because it cost you a hundred bucks to the babysitter and it cost you 40 bucks for the movie and another 50 bucks to go to McDonald's.

Thank you, the people that have helped grow our inflation by 50%. I just think that's just the practical as seniors. We can do practical things. But here's the other thing: just learn to text. If you don't know how to text very well - most of you listening already know how to text and just get your pastor's cell phone number. Don't abuse it. Don't call him Just text him. How can I pray for you today? Period end of story.

Don't you dare share that with anybody else. How can I pray for you today? And then pray and just be that prayer partner for them. Don't share it. Don't call him and drive him crazy with your agenda items. Just say, how can I pray for you today? Because every pastor in the pulpit of every church in America needs somebody praying for him. They need an army praying for him, but it's not, they need to know that some of you wise people that are in the congregation who love Jesus, who are seasoned veterans of the kingdom are praying for them.

Bruce Bruinsma: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think all of those things, or the combination of them, and interestingly enough, I think each one of us as seniors, God has prepared us for the ways that, in fact, we can find meaning and purpose for ourselves, bring meaning and purpose to others, and be an encouragement to those that He puts in our pathway.

But encouragement may look totally different. You've got the capacity to do all those individual, fixing stuff. I'm terrible with that. But if I have a friend, which I do, who says, Bruce, anytime you need something fixed, just give me a call. I'll come over and do it. And you can say thank you. And that'll be it.

And what a blessing that is. And so all of us have unique skills. So to be able to use those skills in ways that can be encouraging, and that encouragement will then spread the relationship, and as we spread the relationship, we find meaning and purpose, and the loneliness goes away.

Jim Brangenberg: Great conversation. Go love on your local church pulpit pastor. Ask him what you can do to help, and just say. What can I do to help you? How can I support you best? And then shut up. Don't go with any agenda items. Let them tell you what they need, and if, and most of all more than anything let them know you're praying for them and ask specifically what they'd like you to be praying about.

Bruce, great conversation. I can't wait for us to just take this full circle and continue on talking about what can seniors do to help eliminate loneliness in seniors and pastors and business owners. You've been listening toiRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg, and of course, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, here with all the wisdom that God has given him. We're Christ followers journeying from retirement to reformation of the whole idea about retirement so ultimately we can say, iRetire4Him!