Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him.

Jim: You've tuned into, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. We're reaching out to you. The 50 million Christ followers in America who are already retired are on their way to retirement. We're so gratefully tuned in today. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And I'm joined by Bruce Bruinsma the founder of the Retirement Reformation. You might wanna know what that's all about. Go to RetirementReformation.org, RetirementReformation.org. Christians are called to ministry for a lifetime impacting and changing lives is more than a priority for God. It is his mandate to us. This mandate the call on our lives has a couple of parts, the common call for all believers to minister, while impacting others and helping to change lives.

Then there is the unique call, which is based on our unique set of gifts, talents, and abilities. But how does all that play out in our retire? Retirement is not only a reward for past service, but is a stepping stone, a launching pad for future ministry. And as Bruce says, a future funded, fully funded ministry, Bruce Bruinsma were the founder of the Retirement Reformation just released his latest book in the future funded ministry series.

And it's called A Fruitful Retirement. The result of a future funded ministry plan. Bruce joined this today for our final podcast of the four part series. Talking about how your retirement ears can be a fruitful retire. Bruce welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Now, Jim, the conversations we've had in the prior three podcasts have, have really illuminated what start starts to illuminate more, what, what fruitful really means and the value of that. So much opportunity, so much opportunity and, and the reward that comes from being fruitful is so much greater than the reward that comes from doing nothing.

Jim: On chapter nine of, of A Fruitful retirement, you say, and I quote you, everything you've experienced, learned and accomplished has prepared you for the next phase of life, retirement. How is that true? Give us an example from your life.

Bruce: 1989 was in a circumstance where I was challenged to make a trip to the end of the world. Literally. The end of the world can, is best personified by the name of a town it's called Timbuktu. Matter of fact, most people would wonder if it town really exists.

It is literally in the country of Molly. It's in the middle of a desert and, and there are no roads to get there. So I was challenged to go there. I thought, well, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard, not traveled much at that time in my life, outside the country. To be called to the end of the world.

And I had a decision to make, would I go, or would I not pretty simple. I made the decision to go and. I went to Timbuk two and spent about a week there and it is in the middle of nowhere. And it's kind of that picture, you know, of the, of the French Legionnaire crawling through the sand and, you know, with his tongue hanging out, trying to get another water.

That's that's where Timbuktu is. It is the end of the world. I thought the reason that I was going there was because I needed to have a conversation. With missionaries in a desolate place. It's another story to unpack at another time, but I went and did that and got the answer to that question. It probably wasn't till maybe almost 15 years later, maybe 20, where I realized that a secondary, but more important reason was my answer to God's question: will you go?

That answer has shaped the rest of my life. We talked in another segment about listening to God's call and being available. Well, how do you know if you're gonna be available? Well, guess what? The way you know, is if you're available, how do you know if you will go because you went and.

Whether it's to a neighbors across the street, across the city, across the state, around the world, it doesn't matter. Are you available? And will you go, God promises that if you will be his messenger and allow his word to. Be expressed through your life and for the things that he calls you to do, he will then prepare you.

He will make you ready. He will then use that to be able to build his kingdom. And so when we talk about being fruitful, the first step in being fruitful is to be available. The second one is to go. The third one is to listen to what he want is to understand. The lessons that you are to learn that will, that will impact all the rest of the things that you do.

And one of the great things about longevity is you have an opportunity to have those experiences and to be able to reflect on them. That was an experience 1989, not a long time ago, but it affects my life today. When a challenge and opportunity situation comes. And the question is, will I step into it as God's representative?

And I've lived long enough now that I can say in the affirmative yes, I will. When I was 30, I couldn't say that now. I can not only say it, but I can do it first.

Jim: A lot of people look at retirement and thank you for sharing that story. A lot of people look at retirement as an ending of sorts, but it's really a new beginning and you just described.

The transformational paradigm, shifting moment in your own life. And, and this new beginning usually relates to taking all that God has woven into the tapestry of our lives and matching it with a fresh calling or assignment. How do we know, maybe I answer this question? How did you know what that calling was for you?

Bruce: When I was a boy who lived in grand rapids, Michigan. Had a lot of friends in the area, there was a, a woods, there was lots of places to roam and to go. And so on. I know when it was time to come home for dinner, your stomach was gone. My dad had a whistle. Oh, okay. My dad had a whistle and it was, I don't know if I can do it.

My lips are drying up, but it was his and his whistle could penetrate. The forest, the trees, the anything that was going on. And when I heard that whistle, I knew it was time to come home here. God calling it's time to listen. How do you know that God is calling? Cause he's opened a door. He shut a door. He speaks audibly.

He speaks through someone else. He speaks through scripture. All the different ways that he speaks to us. He speaks to us in visions, all the different ways that he speaks to us. But when he does choosing his methodology for us to be open listening and available, that's all I can tell you.

Jim: I love the real and raw examples, Bruce. So, so grateful for that. When we come back, second segment of the show, we're gonna have Art Nutter with us today. You're gonna love to hear his story. You're listening to, iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Hey listeners, we would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book of fruitful retirement. Head out to RetirementReformation.org / books.

You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including a fruitful retire. Retirement Reformation.org/books. That's RetirementReformation.org / books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And of course we're always joined by Bruce Bruinsma by the founder of the Retirement Reformation and Bruce, during the second segment of every show you bring on a special guest, who do you have for us today?

Bruce: I'd like to introduce our audience to my friend Art. Art and I have had an opportunity to get to know each other in a variety of different ways through being part of a CEO leadership group.

And one of the things that, that always attracted me to you, art was that you're the kind of person that the average person would say. Shouldn't you be retired and man, you seem to be working a lot and doing that. That's the kind of same things they say to me. So we've got a kinship there, but I know my story, but we need to share some of your story with our, with our readers. So what are you doing and what keeps you going?

Art Nutter: Well what I'm doing is in the we're making patent licensing more efficient for everybody around the world. And why I do this because I had a voice. I heard literally a voice from God. I was in my, I was in my sauna here at my house and I hear this voice that says, Art, I'd like you to make patent transactions more efficient around the world. I'm like, this is weird. Okay.

I'm the only guy in the sauna, but it was as clear as, as I'm talking to you right now and I'm thinking, all right, I had to sit there and, and pray about this and say, all right, well, was this real? And, you know, occasionally the holy spirit does allow these things to happen.

And and I'm like, well, I guess I have all the elements necessary to enable patent licensing to, to be effective efficiently. And so I started trying on this concept around, around the world. And so talking to all my customers, IBM Intel, Microsoft Qualcomm, you know, Samsung, Fujitsu, blah, blah, blah.

These are all my customers. I said, what if we did this patent licensing thing in a way similar to the way music is licensed today? Because you know, we, we, with our shiny heads here have transitioned between when music was distributed on vinyl. Through to tapes then CDs, then MP3s. And now most many people around the world consume music through a subscription service, either through apple music or Spotify, pay one price and listen to all the music you want, where I figure we can do something very, very similar to that in patents.

Bruce: You know, I find it, I find it interesting because. Everywhere. We turn everybody that we interview here, but the people that I meet, you know, each one of us is unique and yet God finds a way to use those, those skills and those talents in a way that will be, will answer an issue for the world, but also an issue for building the kingdom.

So answer me this question. When your feet hit the floor, first thing in the morning, mm-hmm, , what's going through your head?

Art Nutter: Well I'm I I'm, I'm, I'm paying attention to the readings. I'm a Catholic guy. And so the universal Catholic church has the same readings every single day, no matter where you are in the church, anywhere in the world.

Okay. So I, first thing I do get up. I put some clothes on and I listen to the readings as I get in my car and head to mass, because quite often I get asked to help out with the responsorial Psalm or something like that during the mass. But I ha I, as a result of another miracle that I was a beneficiary of, actually one of my daughters was a beneficiary of it.

I made a deal with God, so to speak. To go to mass every single day. And I've been doing that now for 12 years straight because my daughter almost died back when the swine flu was going around the world. And intercession of St. Gianna Mola, patron saint of pregnant moms. She's back and we have a granddaughter as a result of that and very, very cool things.

Bruce: Well, that's, you know, the, we, we talk in the Retirement Reformation messaging. That in fact, one of the benefits of growing older is that we can, that we can, that we can become closer to God. Yes. And that we can grow with our emotional maturity. Now our bodies may, you know, the hair may fall out. Our bodies may yeah, start to deteriorate. We may forget some things now. And then we may slow down a little, but I think those, those BA the on balance, the, the, the benefits that come. From age, certainly outweigh the challenges that come from age. Do you agree with that? Is that what you found?

Art Nutter: No question. No question, Bruce. In fact I participate in Eucharistic adoration on a night, on a nightly basis, not nightly, but at three o'clock in the morning on Thursday mornings, Friday mornings and Sunday mornings, I go in and adore the blessed sacrament and a blessed sacrament adoration chapel at our, at our parish. Okay. It's the first one that was ever been established in the history of the city of Colorado Springs.

It's been going for 24 7 now for the last five north of five years. Anyhow, I'm in there adoring our Lord. And he's talking to me exactly about what you're talking about because as we do age, we get influenced less and less by our external environment and influenced more and more by our internal and spiritual environment.

And, and so I'm, I'm reading stuff by Saint Augustin and St. Francis and a couple other dudes. And they're saying, yep, this is all, this is process where you get closer and closer to God, indeed.

Bruce: Well, that's, that's good. So do you, do you have a sense that your work with the patent books and, and to make patenting and, and its usage and so on simpler? Do you have a sense of is there any unique ways that that particularly impacts the church or the kingdom?

Oh, absolutely.

Art Nutter: Absolutely. Okay. Tell me what that is. Well it's, it's multifaceted and it's really kind of fun. I enjoy speaking in front of audiences and the largest audience that I've been speaking to about patent books was about 2000 people in the audience.

Okay. These are all licensing guys, you know, around the world and all that. And. I get up there and I tell them flat out the, the, the story of how this came about, you know, this, this voice in the sauna, the God, all this stuff. And, and I get commentary after my, my talk, they say, all right. I felt like I was at a tent revival or something like that.

I said, oh, you could be in a worse place. Okay. And and the other way that this will profoundly affect things. This allows people to communicate and work together. Because the holy spirit is in every one of us. And, and we come up with these artificial boundaries, you know, with these COVID masks and everything else like that, that are, that are even emphasized that further.

But, you know, we, we, humans are, are supposed to interact with one another because this gets back to St. Paul's description of the body of. There's different parts of the body have different skills and inventors, if they can't eat because nobody's paying for the use of their invention. Well, then they're gonna have to go do something else.

They're gonna have to flip burgers or something like that. And we lose the capability of those inventors and their inventions. Because if they can get paid for them efficiently, guess what? They'll probably do more inventing. That's a good thing for all of us.

Bruce: Well, and you know, we were all created in the likeness of God and, and he's a pretty inventive fellow. If he was inventive enough to have, have created the three of us that are on the rable - that and giraffes. He's got both a sense of humor and a wide of a variety of skills. Well, Art, thank you so much for being part of it. Your story is, is unique and as every story is unique, Jim, do you have a question?

Jim: I do. Art, I wanna know. So you, you, growing up Catholic you're, you're an avid Catholic. You've heard enough homiles that you could stack it from here to the moon. Did you ever imagine that God cared so much about business, that he gave you specific business instructions that, that, that he said, here's what I want you to architect? Were you surprised actually?

Art Nutter: Yes and no. I mean, I, I I'm, I like to just pay attention to what the good Lord's saying. Right? And I will tell you that Pope Benedict the 16th, before he resigned and, and Pope Francis took over, put together this big old list of things that the church needed to pay attention to there's and it was a list of about 30 line items in there.

And like it, somewhere in the twenties there, it said the church needs to communicate more effectively with the world of science. I'm like, pick me, pick me. That's a guy. I, I live in science land. Okay. But the fact is my, my, my faith drives a lot of my interactions here. And in fact, if you go back and you take a look at history, the church has been very, very influential and supportive of scientific developments over the year. That doesn't mean that we didn't do some dumb things in along way.

Jim: We're not gonna go there today. Art.

Art Nutter: Oh, exactly. Okay. But the church is run by humans and humans do stupid human tricks from time to time okay. But the church overall guided it by the holy spirit. Right? Gets there without some, you know, obviously bumps in the road cuz sohow yeah.

I feel blessed to be part of this because one of the other things I hope to do is make catholic education completely free for anybody who would like to go to a Catholic school here in the diocese of Colorado Springs.

Jim: At some point in time, if they can all walk away with a faith as deep as yours, I'm all for it. That's fantastic. Bruce, back to you,

Bruce: Art, thank you so much, my friend, I appreciate it. We look forward to our next conversation. Thanks for making the time today. Sharing your story. And it is one of those unique stories and it's appreciated. And and we just want to be an encouragement to you. As I know, you've been encouragement to our listeners. So thanks, Art, and have a great day.

Art Nutter: Thank you very much, Bruce. And Jim, God bless both of you.

Jim: You bet. You've been listening to. iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Hey listeners, we would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book of fruitful retirement. Head out to RetirementReformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement, Retirement Reformation.org/books. That's RetirementReformation.org / books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, Bruce. You and I are talking about your book, the, A Fruitful Retirement book, four of a four series books series right now.

So far, man. I know that. Could be more. I know that you're, you know, you're always looking to write more and it's the future funded ministry series I wanna hit on. Ah, well, there's so many things I wanna hit on, but you know, you mentioned you quote Richard and Leon Bergstrom in your book. One of our past guests, they were they're our past guests on the show.

When you wrote, we believe retirement is not the ending, but it is time for breathing examining, resting, slowing down, renewing. Why is it so hard for ourselves, Bruce, to give ourselves permission, to do the things, to do any of those things. Examining, breathing, resting, slowing down. As we prepare for retirement and to walk in retirement, why is it so hard for those four things? Breathing, examining, resting, and slowing down.

Bruce: Every morning, when I get up five days a week,

Jim: You don't get up all seven? You only get up five days a week?

Bruce: I only get up five days. The other two I'm... Five days a week that I, during the week and Judy and I get up around 4:30 and we head for the gym and we, you know, and we work out for about 45, 50 minutes and come home every morning when I, my feet hit the floor.

I think, man, do I really wanna do this today? Or do I really want to go back to bed? And what I learned was. When I give myself permission to do what I should do that I am. That's when I go from sitting on the edge of the bed to standing up and getting ready and ready to go. We give our need to give ourselves permission.

And we started doing this by the way about two years ago now I was 78 years, years old. When we started doing this, say, my goodness, you should have started doing that when you were, you know, 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or 70, but it didn't happen till then. So to be able to say, you know, this is something that, that will really be helpful and to give, give ourselves permission to do.

I think in the same way, when there is something new that it comes into our lives and our understanding a new reality, a new truth that in fact, we need to give ourselves permission to do those things. And it's hard to do that because we've never done it before yet when you do it, the result is so, so positive, so energizing, so helpful.

And yet the next time you do it, it still feels strange until it becomes what, until it becomes somewhat of a habit. Right. And we're able to do that. Same thing is true with those characteristics that, that Richard and Leonna talk about because they're all part of the preparation for what's next. They are not an end in themselves.

They're part of the preparation. When I go work out. It's part of a preparation for staying strong to be available of what's next. And, and these are the things that are necessary when we make that transition into retirement and often between the stages of retirement, to be able to take those activities and give yourself permission to do them. Because they aren't then in themselves, they're a preparation for what's next.

Jim: And what's so funny as young people, we hardly ever give ourselves permission to breathe, to examine, to rest or to slow down. I mean, yeah, I'm a few years younger than you. I'm not giving myself much time for that. Ain't nobody got time for that.

That's what we always say, Bruce. I, I wanna finish up the show really focusing on. The six big questions that everybody needs to answer. And, and, and I know I told you what page was on, so make sure we, we, we did this because you say in your book only you can answer these questions, but these six complex retirement questions, they need our best answers. Why don't you go through what those questions are? And, and let's talk about ' em.

Bruce: Very quickly, it's it is a new season. And so there are then new choices. When there are new choices, it means that there are new questions. When there are new questions, you need to answer them in order to be able to take the next steps that kind of just is logical and makes sense.

But often we don't think of it in that, that sequential or that clearer pattern. So, so the first question for, for you and, and you and your spouse. Simply now, how are we going to relate to each other in our new set of circumstances, if I'm home all day, it's gonna make a huge difference. Then if in fact we are separate, how are we going to, you know, how are we going to relate to each other?

And that's an important question. And it's, it's one that can have some specific answers, but it's also a process. The second one is, so what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Are we gonna travel? Are we gonna play golf? We gonna play bridge or we're gonna work some more at the church, or we're gonna try to find something individually or together that will bring meaning in purpose.

That is an intentional answer, an intent, an intentional activity that is critical. Now here's the one that really gets to it as a matter of fact. It's where are we going to do it? Mm. Our experience is that that's the most divisive question in most families.

Jim: Why is that so divisive?

Bruce: Often and you I'll just pose a, a circumstance. So, so whatever the whether the, let's say the husband was say in the military, They gotta move. Every three years, somebody was telling 'em exactly where they gotta go and what they gotta do, or someone is in the mission world. And they were called to missions in here and there, or wherever it was now often, often the wife, but not necessarily says, okay, For the last 40 years or 30 years, we've either had people tell us, or you've decided, or the circumstance decided of where we're gonna live. Now I'm gonna speak into that.

Jim: It's about time.

Bruce: And so we gonna live near the kids, or we gonna live away from the kids. Are we gonna live someplace where there's things that we enjoy doing hiking and whatever it may be, or are we going to go someplace that we can afford? Are we gonna move to a small town in Indiana or in Idaho?

Or are we gonna go to a retirement community in Florida? And so all these living circumstances are probably the messiest and the most difficult to determine. My only wise advice on that would be is come to the best conclusion you can and be prepared to move again. Yeah, because that's most likely what's gonna happen.

Yeah. So part of that then answers the question of who are we gonna do retirement with? Is it gonna be, you know, our friends of the last 20 years, or are we gonna go someplace and make some new ones? Who are we gonna, or are we going to be dedicated to our parents for, or family? Yeah. Family. Yeah. Family and parents.

So who are we gonna do retirement with? And, and the only two things you can be sure of. When you, when, when you move is that you will have to make new friends. And the other issue is that you take yourself with you. You don't leave yourself in that old place. You take it with you. So, and there's a lot of implications of that.

Then finally, of course, how are we gonna finance it? Having a pretty good sense of, of what that is. It's amazing to me. How people. So let's say they're 64 and they're gonna retire at 65 and I'm speaking with them. And I, I ask them, by the way, how much does it cost you every month to live? They have no idea.

The paycheck's worth is the unsaid answer. So to be intentional about that, and then what is really important to you? What are your priorities? What's really important to you? And it may be different for a husband and a wife. And so to be able to understand what's important to your spouse and be able to support, encourage whatever that is, as well as, as vice versa.

And so those are the, those are top six questions that if you can answer those. So who are you if you sum it up? As in the beginning of that chapter, I tell a story. and it's says, ask the question, who are you? And where are you going?

Jim: Hmm. Those six questions again, how are we going to relate to each other?

What are we going to do? Where are we gonna do it? Who are we gonna do it with? How are we gonna finance it? And what is most important in retirement, Bruce, those are powerful questions and the questions that everybody needs to ask in order to experience. A Fruitful Retirement, a great way to end this, Bruce, what a great book, a resource that all of you listeners, all of us can get a copy online on Amazon or on Retirement Reformation.org.

Along with many of the other books of Bruce's, bruce has written. Bruce, any final thoughts before we say goodbye to the part four of four series on A Fruitful Retirement, any final words?

Bruce: Oh, only that the call to fruitfulness is a call that Jesus makes on our lives and he makes it because he loves us cheers for us, and he wants the best for us. And when we are fruitful, we will experience the best.

Jim: Thank you, Bruce. You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation online at RetirementReformation.org. I've been privileged to be your host, Jim Brangenberg. And along with Bruce Bruinsma, with the founder of the Retirement Reformation we're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation, so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love. Serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians.

To find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirementreformation.org.