iRetire4Him Show 72: Ageism and the Christ-Following Retiree

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already into retirement, you've tuned into iRetire4Him the Mouthpiece of The Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. Check us out online Retirement Reformation.org. RetirementReformation.org, and of course on Facebook retirement reformation.

Ageism. It affects everyone. Children as young as four years old, become aware of their culture's age stereotypes. From that age onwards, they internalize and use these stereotypes to guide their feelings and behaviors towards people of different ages.

They also draw on cultures age stereotypes to perceive and understand themselves, which can result in self-directed ageism at any age. However, ageism can change your view, can change how we view ourselves. It can erode solidarity between generations, can devalue or limit our ability to benefit from what younger or older populations can contribute and can impact our health, longevity, and wellbeing, while also having far reaching economic consequences.

Ageism also increases risky health behaviors such as eating an unhealthy diet, drinking excessively, or smoking. Ageism has serious and wide ranging consequences for people's health and wellbeing among older people. Ageism is associated with poorer physical and mental health, increased social isolation and loneliness, greater financial insecurity, decreased quality life and premature death.

Today we begin a series on ageism and the Christ following retiree. Why? We believe how we see ourselves is directly related to the messaging we absorb on a daily basis. If that messaging isn't from a biblical worldview that honors and values the participation of retired folks, that message can be harmful.

Our three part series on ageism and the Christ following retiree will focus first on understanding ageism, then on how ageism impacts the world around us. And finally, in our third podcast, we'll focus on how our faith can help us overcome this age discrimation. To help us gain a proper understanding of ageism Bruce Bruinsma from the Retirement Reformation is here to add his personal insight and expertise on the subject. Bruce, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Jim, it's always good to be with you and I'm excited about this three part series. It's, it's you know, not exactly the most positive thing to talk about. But I think the results of our conversation will, will help our audience to be able to navigate some things that are really important for us to both understand and to be able to deal with.

Jim: Well, and I think that we will be able to turn this into a positive conversation because we're talking about it in the light of scripture. So, Bruce, why don't you just define for us first, what is ageism?

Bruce: I was in the mall the other day and there was a mom and probably a four or five year old boy and their grandfather. And I don't know what their conversation had been up until that point in time, but the young man, the boy turned to his mother and he kind of looked up at her and says, Is grandpa old?

And she turned to him and said, Well, yes he is. And that was kind of the end of the conversation. And so here we have three relationships. We've got mom who was probably in her early thirties. We got the young man who's four, and we got grandpa looked like he was probably in his late sixties somewhere. And so the relationship between the three now has a little bit of a shadow over it because the little boy knew enough to be able to say I think I know what old is and to ask his mother is, is that an example of it?

And, the mother's affirmation that yes, he's old and stopping there - you have another person. So who is impacted in that conversation and how are they impacted? So what we have is a systemic communication.

And understanding by different age groups of something that has a slightly negative tinge to what it is. Now, it could have gone the other way. It could have been grandfather saying to mom, Is that little guy worth anything? He would not have asked it that way.

Jim: No, he wouldn't. He's a grandpa.

Bruce: He's a grandpa. So this is a little kid who doesn't know anything. Here's a mom in the middle, and here's a grandpa on the other end of this. And so the stereotypes that exist in our culture with each and every age. So for example, calling your grandson Pip squeak, he begins to understand that, Well, I don't know what a pip squeak is, but it doesn't sound very good.

That sounds like a mouse to me, and that's not very good. On the other hand, when the grandson is asking, is he old? Does that mean he's in some way knows that, that there is less value there and that old has a a definition. a meaning? And so the systematic reinforcement of cultural stereotypes, in particularly what we're talking about, the ageism part, has inherent in it the suggestion of increasingly decreased value.

Jim: Bruce, when did you, when did you learn about ageism? When's the first time you really understood this?

Bruce: Well, as I began to do some research for some of my books, I, I came across a really great article that talked about it, and I went, Huh. That's really true. And that began a little bit of a journey. So that was about three, four years ago. And, and so I'd never put the pieces together to really understand how that worked and what the impact of that was on both the older generation as well as the younger generation. And so I'll give you another example because we're talking about a systematic and a systemic - which means built into the cultural view of someone else.

So for example, in our politics today, we use the word immigrants and the person can use the word immigrant and referring lovingly to the activity of their parents coming over and all the wonderful things that happened. Or it could be talking about the immigrants that are coming across our southern border and that we ought to do something about.

All right. Those are systemic kinds of perceptions. In our world we have those same issues. Let me give you a subtle one that happens: well, Bruce, well, when are you gonna retire? If I've been asked that one time, I've been asked that 50 times now, from an outside objective standpoint, Well, Pete's sake, the guy's 81 years old, you ought stop working some. That would be good for him.

And it may be done with a purest of heart, purest of intentions, but the message is, Bruce, you can't do what you used to do. When are you going to transition to doing nothing? And when you get asked that 20, 30, 40 times, then you start thinking, Well, huh, maybe they know something about me I don't. Maybe I need to really think about the roles that I'm playing now and can I really carry those out? I need to think about how has God prepared me for this stage? And maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. And that's, that's the thought process that goes in and it reflects our culture.

Jim: Well, I wanna dig deeper into this cuz there's multiple kinds of ageism out there in our world. But we're gonna come back in our next segment and have an interview with Sue Ruddick from DaySpring as she talks about her retired life after DaySpring and then back in segment three, we'll finish up this conversation on really defining ageism and how it impacts us. You're listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim Brangenberg, and of course, the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. But please check us out online RetirementReformation.org. We'll be right back.

Outro: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us. Go to Retirement Reformation.org and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink, retool, reframe, and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. Retirement Reformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: And welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. As today we have another conversation with Sue Ruddick. She's a 12 year retired DaySpring employee - online, dayspring.com DaySpring.com. 12 years ago, Sue, you retired. And you mentioned to me offline, how when you retired, you didn't have a lot of prep time for retiring. Tell us a little bit about that story.

Sue Ruddick: Well, it was like okay, what do I do and how would I go about finding out what it is I'm supposed to do and why am I having these feelings and how do I deal with this? Is this normal? And so I was questioning God, you know, I don't know about this Lord.

Jim: So, I mean, I wanna hear the story. So you'd been preparing for retirement financially, right? Had you been saving up for retirement?

Sue Ruddick: Well, there's a story there, and because of our family situation with some of the children, we had not been able to save and prepare for retirement. And, and really my retirement came sooner than I had expected.

Jim: Okay.

Sue Ruddick: So financially we were not in a best situation. But that aside, it was like, you know, we talked a little bit about the emotions of the retirement. The sense of self accomplishment or accomplishment was not there, and all of these things were intertwined. Even though DaySpring is an incredible place to be, I didn't have that to shore me up. I didn't have that place to exercise what God had gifted in me.

Jim: So let's - so the process, so retirement was thrust upon you a little bit unexpectedly? How did you adjust?

Sue Ruddick: Actually, I think overall I adjusted pretty quickly, but it was a process and it was, it, God had to reveal some things to me. It's like the, the emotions of it that I needed to tend to that I have since found out are normal. That I wasn't just being a whiny person. That it was the lack of accomplishment, nothing to put myself into, feeling like God was through with me.

Jim: Let's describe those emotions though, Like how are you feeling? Was it anxiety, was it fear? I mean, describe those emotions because people listen to this podcast are going: yeah.

Sue Ruddick: It was depression. It was depression. It was loneliness. It felt like isolation. There was something down deep inside of me that was discontent. All of those negative things that began to pop up that, and some I was totally unfamiliar with, were not normally my personality, and yet they were there.

Jim: What are some of the questions you wish you had asked yourself before you retired?

Sue Ruddick: I would've thought through or asked how to prepare for moving to another fulfilling lifestyle, another phase of my life where I felt like it was going to be beneficial, not just for me, but for God's kingdom work. But what he has done is taken those negative things that I experienced in this adjustment period. He has birthed that into restoring joy. That was another thing that was a huge piece of this was restoring my joy.

Jim: Cause you seem like a joyful person. So you're saying when you retired and retirement was thrust upon you, Sue Ruddick wasn't joyful?

Sue Ruddick: Not exactly .

Jim: So if we brought your husband on and say, Okay, what was Sue like? How would he have described you?

Sue Ruddick: I don't know if I would even go there. ,

Jim: We'll call him after.

Sue Ruddick: Oh yeah, please. So, if I were helping somebody prepare for retirement, I would suggest that they read some books that tell them these are some things that you can expect are normal to work through.

This is where you go to find your source of fulfillment. Get involved in a Bible study, ask God to pour into you his love, his wisdom. Let him show you what he wants you to be doing. Is it volunteer work? Is it ministering to elderly parents? Is it, is it taking meals to shut ins? I mean, sometimes we overlook the obvious of what brings us fulfillment.

How has God gifted you? Has He given you the gift of hospitality? Bring people into your home and you don't have to have a full blown Bible study, but bring them in when they come through the door, do they just feel like this wonderful place to be? Do they sense God's spirit there? You can volunteer your time. You can get involved in a ministry, use what God has given you. He's given me health and strength and I'll say a sense of, of competency - lightly. And he will use you if you are willing. He wants to use you to further his kingdom. We wanna see results in eternity.

Jim: We need to give you a more time. You need to be preaching. Really. I love this. Okay, so I wanna capture a couple more thoughts from you though. All right. So your friends that retired before you, did you learn anything from them?

Sue Ruddick: No, not really, other than just watching them walk, kind of walk through some of the things, same things that I was.

Jim: But it didn't help prepare you though?

Sue Ruddick: No, it did not. I just, once I was in it, I began to see these things in other women and before I hadn't really paid that much attention. I didn't associate that with post-employment.

Jim: Post retirement syndrome.

Sue Ruddick: Yeah.It's there.

Jim: It's a syndrome, PRS. We got it - post retirement syndrome. Okay. You mentioned that your husband - on a previous podcast, you mentioned that your husband retired a couple years after you. Talk to us about that dynamic. I didn't tell you I was gonna ask this question - too bad.

Sue Ruddick: Did I - I'm sorry. Did I roll my eyes?

Jim: You did roll your eyes. They were very loud actually. You rolled your eyes out loud. Because a lot of people talk about the dynamic. Okay, when one spouse retires, that's fine. But when the second one retires, it creates a different dynamic at home. Talk to us about how you and your husband worked through that dynamic.

Sue Ruddick: Well, he needed, I needed, but he needed to have something to do with his time. And again, I saw him. He had no direction and he didn't really do anything for a couple of years other than we had five acres and there was always things to do on our little ranch. And we both still had elderly parents, which required some time and so he was in and out quite a bit. But I found infringement on my time. My time. My hobbies.

Jim: He infringed on your time.

Sue Ruddick: Yes. Because he was there and I felt like...

Jim: He was needy.

Sue Ruddick: Well, yeah, but he didn't, he didn't think he was. But he was.

Jim: But he was struggling with the things that you struggled with, but you'd worked through.

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: But you had to help him work through.

Sue Ruddick: But it was very different for him too.

Jim: Well, he's a guy. Yes, he is. And it is different. He, when he got up in the morning, I would say, What are you gonna do? And he'd go, I don't know. Well, that's the worst thing you can have is no direction. And I had had some of that, but his was at a different level.

Sue Ruddick: I mean, that's kind of who, who guys are, I think. They've got to have something productive going on in their life. They need to be helping somebody or doing something that benefits the family or, or whatever.

Jim: Purpose.

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: You just need purpose.

Sue Ruddick: You do. And God builds that into us.

Jim: So what have, what's different about your marriage relationship today? Now that you're both retired, you both have worked through just yuckiness of figuring out retirement. What, what has God shown the two of you together? I mean, are you guys doing something together in retirement that you didn't get to do before retirement?

Sue Ruddick: We, yes, we spend more time together in, in projects at church and he volunteers a lot of time at church and, and does security and he's on the building team and so we do a lot of those things together.

And family. We have, between the two of us, we have a blended family of six children and 14 grandchildren.

Jim: That's a lot.

Sue Ruddick: And they're scattered from Western Montana all the way to Georgia. And so we, our emotions, our mental emotions and everything, we expend a lot in family situations because with that many children and that many grandchildren, we spend a lot of time developing those relationships. We want to impact our grandchildren, and so we have to work at it. It does not come natural. I mean, not very many grandchildren will say, Oh, I wanna go spend some time at, at grandma's house. So we have to be the initiators of some of that. So we do a lot of that together. We travel a little bit, but not as much as we would like. But in a sense, our hearts are more drawn to what is it God wants to take us to do to speak the word to somebody.

Jim: Mm. Last question and really this is a question for you to share your heart with those listening today that are prepping for retirement or just brand new into retirement. Some words of encouragement.

Sue Ruddick: I would say there is life after you retire. Ask God for the wisdom He has told us in James that he will, that he will give you the wisdom. He will not scold you for asking him what you need to do, but develop - ask him for the purpose. What is that purpose he has for you? He will give it to you. He will fulfill it and you will love working for the Lord.

Jim: Fantastic. Sue Rudick, thank you so much for being on iRetire4Him today, for sharing your story and for just giving old plugs there for Dayspring. Check 'em out online. Dayspring.com. And Sue, if there's ever anything we could do at Retirement Reformation, we need to capture some of what you've got and help some of these ladies. Maybe we need to bring you, need to suck into Retirement Reformation a little bit, I think.

Sue Ruddick: Hmm? Yeah.

Jim: All right. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him. Hang on.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of The Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years.

Get both at the Retirement Reformation website in the bookstore RetirementReformation.org. That's Retirement Reformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. Bruce and I are talking today about ageism. Bruce, I, I loved the way you summarized and just introduced us to the subject in the first segment, and, I loved our conversation with Sue Rudick as she talked about the impact of retirement on her life. Can you give us some, what, what are the different kinds of ageism out there?

Bruce: Well, I think there's a ageism that talks about our physical capacity to be able to do work. There's one category of ageism. Another one talks about our mental capacity to be able to grasp new concepts to be able to see new directions or just to remember where we put our keys. And then there is a, a third group that talks about just the general deterioration of us as people in terms of being able to deliver value to society.

Jim: Hmm. Wow. And you did a great job explaining, giving us some examples from which things you've observed in the world and read about in the world. Let's talk, let's get personal. Your, your folks are gone now, but how did ageism impact your parents? What did you observe?

Bruce: I observed on my dad, who was a college dean. Also, I've been a professor. He was an academic and a great musician by the way. But when it was time for him to retire as Dean of the College of Arts and Humanities at San Jose State, I could sense with him in the conversations that we had of his really struggling with what's next and to find what's next that could reinforce his sense of value to himself.

Wonderfully what happened was that the, that a think tank that was supported by the Prince of the Netherlands reached out for him and asked him to come to the Netherlands with my mom, and spent a couple of years doing some research over there.

And, and that was just a great affirmation for him that he still had value. It was in a little different context, a little different way, but it was something that was important to him and that they enjoyed. So that transition was a good one when they came back after a couple of years in the Netherlands, and then then it was, well, huh, what's next?

And so again, that sense of boy, is the value that I had as a dean and do the value that I had as a researcher, how does that value translate into that next stage of my life? And so they were attending a church in Sun City, actually Sun City West, Arizona, which is where they lived. That's another conversation.

But they asked him to be the director of worship for their church. So now we have a dean, we have a researcher, and now a director of worship, and he threw himself into that. He had an absolutely great choir. He had about 60, 70 people and they were all in their, you know, late fifties to eighties. So the voices were a little marginal, but boy, the music that he could pull out of them hmm was, was really quite fantastic. So again, an affirmation of value he had that he could deal with for himself.

Jim: But he was constantly pushing against the culture that was telling him just to chill out, check out and move to Sun City in Arizona, which is where people go to die. I mean, that's really, I mean, if you haven't been to Sun City, I mean, I went to the first Sun City in Arizona where they painted all the tree bark white so that they wouldn't ab absorb it.

There was fur trees in everybody's front yards. I mean, it was, it was just full of people that were retired that were told, go somewhere else.

Bruce: So then during one of the rehearsals for the choir, he had a stroke and, you know, that then made that next level of change and he, he went to becoming much more dependent.

And two years later he died. So there was that process and there were three of them where there was an affirmation for him that he could do. And then of course he had the physical issue that came. And I think in some ways, we all look for ongoing affirmation of the value that we have. We sometimes we try to cover that feeling of a lack of affirmation by painting a picture of the leisure and the Sun City West kind lifestyle that, that we have.

And we say, Well, that still gives me, that still gives me meaning. And I would suggest that what it does, it gives you value not meaning. And so this whole ageism issue of people's perception of you, your perception of yourself, and the action steps that you decide to take makes a huge difference in how we live in any one of the last three stages of our life.

Jim: So talk about you personally and, and maybe Judy as well, if she'll allow you to speak. How has ageism impacted you beyond the fact that people keep asking you, Bruce, when are you gonna retire? I mean, you know, how else have you seen it?

Bruce: Well, for example, I was having breakfast with two senior executives of a ministry yesterday, and we were deep into a conversation about their strategy and some of the things that they wanted to do, and those are ways that I could help. And we had a pretty dynamic conversation. Some on the course of that conversation the, the person across the table from me mentioned that they were 63 and retired. Now, they were doing work for ministry, but 63 and retired. And she kind of looked up at me and I said, Well, I'm 81. She said, You're what? You're 81? And in her voice was, How are you able? What are you doing in the role that you are playing in relation to us when you're 81 years old? Yet before she knew I was 81, there were three or four ideas and conversations that we had, and she's all excited. All of a sudden I'm 81 and she has to rethink that.

And so you can see how that. Plays itself out.

Jim: So her filter had shades in it already, Bruce.

Bruce: Her filter, had definitely had shades in it. Now let me give you the other side. Judy and I are gonna take a cruise on the main wind jammer. Those, those a big four basted scooners that go out of Camden and they go out in the islands. And we were all excited about that, made the reservation almost a year ago. So last night after the ball game, I thought, you know, I had to just check and see if there's. See if there's any reviews of these and there's, is there anything about them that I should know before we go in a couple of weeks? So I start reading the reviews and the first couple were all auditory and so on.

Then I read three or four that were long, that I went, Oh, I had no idea about that part of the activity. . And so as I read through that, when I got up this morning, I went, Judy, as Judy and I were going to work out, I said to her, I says, I got some reviews that you need to look at. And you need to look at it, and then we needed to talk.

So we looked at 'em, we talked. I called the company again, got some clarification, and as a net result of that, I said to Judy, I said, You know, dear, I think as much as I would like to do this and was looking forward to it, I, I think the reality of what it is has passed our experience capacity. And she said, You mean you don't want to go?

And I said, No, I don't mean that. I just don't think that we are going to be able to really appreciate and enjoy and engage with the activities in the context of what this ship is. So we talked and prayed about that for a little bit and agreed. And I called and canceled the trip. Hmm. And that was a definite impact of the age that we are.

And so finding what is true about where you are and what is what culture says you are and then being able to see what God says you are and being able to put that into a pathway of life, I think is all part of this ageism discussion. Because if we, we believe what culture says, man, oh man, we should be dead already.

Jim: Great summary, Bruce. Great conversation on, on what is ageism, and I can't wait. As we get deeper into our three part series, I'm really just hoping people flesh out how do they react to this? How do they move forward? And you've already given us a couple of examples, but how does our faith ultimately conquer this?

And we just encourage you all to just go out to the Retirement Reformation website, Retirement Reformation.org. There are tons of resources out there to help you walk proudly in your faith and in your life as a retired Christ follower. Check us out online RetirementReformation.org. You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course, The Retirement Reformation's own Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to Reformation so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth. And experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money, and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and Journey from retirement to Reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to Retirement Reformation.org.