Jim: Hey, welcome back to a special edition of iWork4Him. Normally Martha and I do interviews with folks who have a story to tell, and we get only a short form of that story. Today we're gonna finish capturing Nick Cinelli's story part two. Nick and I first met at a BNI group back in Seminole, Florida.

He's a consummate sales guy. He's a tremendous networker. And apparently he's a tremendous researcher. Nick always brings laughter to every room that he walks into and he's sharing the account of how his life was turned right side up really because of his desire to dance with Sue. Nick Cinelli, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Nick Cinelli: Thank you for having me.

Jim: All right. So when the last question we asked on the last episode was "in your expertise, what's more reliable? The scientific community behind evolution or the biblical community of scientists behind creation? And you uncategorically said the biblical community of scientists behind creation. And a lot of people that are listening to this show today are going biblical community of scientists and creation? That Science and creation can actually agree is your conclusion for all of this. That's what you came up with.

Nick Cinelli: Yeah, you have to remember that one is based on speak research and intelligence. When you put scientists and they come to believe in creation, what could be more powerful? Because if anything, science is of the opinion, by many people, that it's free from creation. It doesn't need God. So when you have even one or two scientists, that say, hey, this whole thing only can begin because of a creator. Only the creator makes sense of ourselves and things that we have and the universe and the Big Bang. If it wasn't for a creator, none of this would work. And you would think that scientists would be of the other side. And that's not true.

There's probably, today, there's probably more scientists, if they didn't worry about losing their job, by the way, I have to throw that out, believe in creation as the only possible solution than science. Okay, anybody who believes in science and doesn't believe in creation is lying to himself. It's a fairy tale. He might as well believe that Donald Duck created everything. That would be more believable, so to speak, than everything coming from nothing.

Jim: And even Donald Duck was created by Walt Disney. So all right, so all of this started, your research started because you liked Sue, a dance partner at a dance. You were doing dances on the weekend. You were in your, I'm guessing you were at that point in time, you were in your late fifties when you started dancing with Sue and you fell in love with her, but there was this conflict. She was a believer in Jesus and the Bible, and you were a believer in science and that the Bible was just a bunch of hooey. What happened? Tell us the rest of the story with Sue.

Nick Cinelli: Also keep in mind that Sue lived in Miami. Okay. And I live in Tampa. You lived in Tampa Bay. And in fact, one of the first meetings when she was driving up from Miami to go to Daytona beach to a dance, in her mind, she said, cause she had a crush actually on my friend.

She says, I wonder if Tom Dixon is going to be there today. She was just saying that to herself in the car. And she said a voice set to her and no, but his friend Nick will. And that was the weekend that my friend Tom couldn't make it to Daytona beach to dance, because he was going to attend the Gasparola Parade in Tampa at that time, they happen to come on the same weekend.

So when we both ended up being at the check in counter at the Hotel in Daytona she was as shocked as I was that we ran into each other because prior to that time we hadn't even paid attention to each other. And again, my story goes forth because when I found out she was a Christian, as a true scientist that I thought, my whole story begins because I'm trying to prove her wrong, that there was no God.

And when in fact when we walked into the dance floor, one of our friends said, sarcastically of course, his name was Ernie. We knew a lot of the couples at these dances. And as we approached this table, because we both knew him, he said, wow, now there's a marriage made in heaven. And at that time, I'm laughing to myself, because, not only did I not believe in God, I didn't believe in heaven. But it was something that I guess people say. And come to find out, it was a marriage. And we did get married. And we fell in love and she brought me to the Lord.

Jim: But how many years did that take from the time of that day of registering to go dancing for the day or for the weekend to the day where you actually got married? And you did all this research and you're trying to prove her wrong and tell her how stupid she was. How long did it take till you finally realized how wrong you were?

Nick Cinelli: I honestly, if I had to guess, cause I didn't keep track, but it was a constant research. I would say at least a couple of years. After a couple of years of research, I'll tell you, you can find out a lot about something if you research it for a couple of years. A year is a long time because I spent almost every day online doing things and reading books. And that's a lot of research. And as I said, the more I did, the more it proved to a creator, and it proved to the impossibility of happening on its own.

Jim: So how did you come to marry Sue?

Nick Cinelli: Came to marry Sue because I think what always influenced me was when my friend said, Now there's a marriage made in heaven. And when she told me that she was thinking about Tom, yet, a voice inside her says no, but Nick is here. So I don't know. I always felt some kind of an inspiration, and I fell in love with her.

Plus what she did, she turned my life around. How could I not want to be with her? How could I not want to marry her? Because I saw myself as going from black to white, a white to black, a green to blue. It's like she changed the whole thing.

Jim: And it was her faith that inspired you to really prove her wrong. But really what you found out is that she was right. All right, let's get back into more of this story. How long have you guys been been married now?

Nick Cinelli: 2002 we got married.

Jim: All right. So how, let's switch this to today, because you're done doing the research, trying to prove the Bible wrong and science right. Now, how do you use the Bible to prove that the science of creation is true?

Nick Cinelli: Because if you read the verses, First of all, it's the only thing that makes sense, if you think about it, from a logical point of view. The first law of science, which by the way is funny, because it says that In essence, all life comes from something. So how could it come from nothing if it has to come from something? And what is that something? The only other thing that fits the bill is a creator. Okay? You either have a creator or you don't.

If you don't have a creator, you have no creation. We wouldn't be having this conversation. So to exist, you need a creator. You need someone that started it all, and that's the first law of science. It doesn't say Creator, God forbid they should use that word, but it says something has to be to make everything else. What is that something that has to be? Wouldn't you call that the creator, if he was the first one?

Jim: Don't they use this thing, instead of saying creator, they use intelligent design? Isn't that what they say? Intelligent design?

Nick Cinelli: Yeah, without realizing it, they're saying God, the creator. Because to create something by intelligent design means you are an intelligent designer. Think about that. So they're saying they're admitting there's a God without even realizing it. That's what's so funny about the world who tries to deny the creator. It's laughable. They have nothing to stand on, but people follow again. Why? Why? Why? because they want to control and not have a second person looking over their shoulder.

It's almost as if they say, I wish I didn't have parents to tell me when I'm wrong. Wouldn't it be great if I didn't have parents so I wouldn't be wrong? Yeah. But you also wouldn't be here. So you better be careful what you wish for, okay? So if you wish to be left alone and not have parents, it means you're saying, I don't want to be here. Now, what person in their right mind would want to be here?

Jim: Yeah, that's a tough one because people really do argue out of both sides of their mouth. All right. So what, when you started doing your research and you started recognizing the Bible as really a scientific research manual, what did you learn from the Bible about creation?

Nick Cinelli: I learned that it's the only verse that makes sense. It explains everything, the heavens, and so on. Who even talks about the heavens, except the Bible? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God. Show me that in any other context. In the beginning was nothing. I didn't exist, yet I'm talking to you. Is that what evolution is trying to say? Yeah. It's saying, Hi, I don't exist, but you're going to listen to me anyway, because there's a lot of people out there who fall for anything. I don't exist, mind you, but you're going to listen to me. The Word of God doesn't say that. It says in the beginning, God created everything and he loved his creation. And made his creation look like Him.

Jim: And I think that going back to that point you said a minute ago, people don't want to think about somebody looking over their shoulder, but that's not what God's intent is anyway. But I think you could talk about that. It's not about God wanting to rule over us and point out when we're wrong, God just loves us and he created us because he loves us and he wanted a relationship with us.

All right. So what did you learn about Jesus from the Bible that was proven by science and the research community?

Nick Cinelli: The fact that, first of all, the biblical history is true, there's evidence. There was followers of Jesus. There was many who saw him that died on the cross for us. Many were witnesses to the punishment he took on for us. And it makes sense because in in a broken world, you need a savior that would say, okay, I overlooked the brokenness. Remember, this goes back to the Garden of Eden. Okay, where they disobeyed God, Adam and Eve, and we are their descendants. So we have a certain rebel nature, so to speak, in us. And it's only when we deal with that, it's like anything else.

Any bad habits that we have will continue as bad habits unless we deal with them. So if we think we're the perfect person, here's what I want to ask the average person. Did you create the world? And a logical person would say, no. Is the world here? Yes. Then who created it, if it wasn't you? Gee, it had to be somebody else.

Oh, now I get it. This someone else, not just me. Why can't an atheist think that way? Go back to the first atheist, in other words. Keep going back, and you'll get to the point where it's me, or somebody else.

Jim: It's what a former vice president's once said: that's an inconvenient truth.

All right. So how did you - when you're doing your research, how did you determine that Jesus wasn't just a good guy versus a liar and in fact that he was God? Because first you'd use science to, you were trying to prove that the Bible was wrong and a bunch of hooey using science. But eventually you had to deal with Jesus who said he was God. He is God and that they say he raised from the dead. How? How'd you come to that conclusion?

Nick Cinelli: You have to remember that when you bring up the topic of Jesus, you have to realize he was God and the son of God and he came to redeem us from our sin. We were born with original sin, again, because of Adam and Eve. So your question, in essence, you want me to reveal or say what?

Jim: No, what I'm saying is, how did you determine that? Because a lot of people look at Jesus and go, he was just a good guy.

Nick Cinelli: Oh yeah, That's the biggest lie of all. He can't be a good guy. Why? Why can he not be a good guy? There's only two choices. He can only be the God he says he is, or the biggest liar in the world. Can't have it both ways. Okay. And many Christians, many non Christians, by the way, have come to believe in him because of that quandary. Anyone who says he's the son of God and is God, and if he's not, he's the biggest liar in the world. And this is why, and it's so great because Jesus as God made it that way.

He put eggs on the face of any religion that says Jesus was just a good man. Think about it. Buddhists, Muslim, whatever you want to say. They all say, gee, they all acknowledge Jesus as a good man. How could he be a good man if he says he's God? So you're saying he either is the biggest liar in the world, Oh, there is no such thing as Jesus. You can't have it both ways. If I say I'm God, only two things can exist. I am God, or I'm a liar. I can't be a good guy. How could I be a good guy if I'm claiming to be God and I'm not him? And that in essence, it's the logic that proves how great and infinitely smarter God and Jesus is than we are.

Because who else would have set the trap for all other religions? You look at every religion in the world today, and they will tell you and acknowledge in their website, in their writing, that Jesus was not God. He was just a good guy. That proves how misled they are. You can't make that statement. All you can say is he's a liar, or he is God.

But you can't say he was just a good man and not God. He didn't leave that up to us. And some famous Christians have said that. I didn't make this up, by the way. He didn't leave that up to us. And that shows his superiority and love for us. He didn't want us to be embarrassed by saying that he was a good man, but not God. Because we would be hypocritical in that statement. So who else would set the trap of every other, there's about 50 other religions and they all will tell you on their website right now before they change it after this broadcast, they might want to change that. But they all will claim that he's a good man, but was not God.

That shows that that religion is false and dead because you can't have it both ways. So who was following these religions that are saying that God was, he was a good man, but not God? Because that shows they're lying. Don't you see the genius of God, the creator? He set a trap for every other religion and they don't even know it.

Just like Jesus was the only empty tomb in history. If your religion does not include believing in Jesus and God, his father, that's the only true religion, all the others are dead and buried. Why would I want to follow Buddha? He's dead and buried. Why would I want to follow Muhammad? He's dead and buried. You could visit his grave. All these other leaders have graves well marked. So I'm going to follow somebody that's dead and buried? What is he going to do for me?

So it leads me back to only Jesus has an open grave. That means he rose from the dead. That's the guy I want. Even if I'm the dumbest person in the world, why wouldn't you choose life? Why would you choose death? What is death going to do for you?

Jim: And you just said something so powerful because Jesus didn't just come to save us from our sins. But he came to give us life. It was, he came to give us life because the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. But Jesus came for us to have life here on this planet and live it to the fullest.

And that was the reality of who Jesus is. And you're right, not a single other world religion has a savior that was raised from the dead. But you also say in your book, something a little controversial. Okay, you say a lot of controversial things but this you said that not all forms of Christianity are true and biblical. What do you mean by that? Are there really forms of Christianity if they're not true?

Nick Cinelli: Many beliefs, some beliefs, will call themselves Christianity. It's like a lot of people might call themselves American. You can't call yourself an American, for example, if you don't believe in the Constitution.

Then you're a phony American, so to speak. Okay? Remember that everything goes back to the original. In America, we have the Constitution. So if it doesn't line up with the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, then it's probably wrong. And it's the same thing if something doesn't line up with the Bible, then it's definitely wrong.

Because both books cover everything. They cover, for example, the Constitution covers voting. How you get this, how you would elect senators, and so on and so forth. The Bible is the same way. It's our book that will let us lead a good life, not harming anyone, and be able to promote the goodness that God gave us.

He gave us a brain to use. And the question that you asked also has to do, yeah, there are religions who do not follow the Bible. And that's no different than politicians who don't follow the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. They're going to make mistakes.

Because they're trying to weave in something that doesn't belong there and they've done the same thing with Christianity There's a lot of Christians who are almost afraid of the Bible because the Bible call out sin. They're afraid to call out sin because they think they're gonna have less people in the pews. Less people means less money.

Jim: That goes back to that same vice president and that's an inconvenient truth because you start to read your Bible. That could be an inconvenient truth All right so in the end of your research who do you find is behind all of this falseness, the theory of evolution and all the world religions that support it? Who do you find is behind it all?

Nick Cinelli: Satan, the deceiver of all things. There really is only two things in the world when it's all said and done. Good and evil. God is good. And Satan is evil. God is the creator. He wants you to have life and life more abundantly. And Satan wants to destroy him and you not think about him.

In fact, Satan would love if every person in the world hated God and Jesus, or didn't believe they were true. Then he would be as a God. Which, remember, that's why he was thrown out of heaven to begin with. Okay, he wanted to take on God, and he lost. And he's still losing.

Jim: So summarize, if maybe somebody maybe missed part one of this interview, summarize your scientific findings after all of this research. Summarize it in a paragraph or two, what you really found out about science, about evolution, about creation. Summarize it for us.

Nick Cinelli: First of all, there would be no science if there was no creator. Because science is based on the physical world that we can see, and the only way the physical world came about was through a creator.

Okay, science didn't come up and create this world. Science only tries to explain what we have and what we see. Saying that science believes this and science proves that, that's a lie, because science doesn't do any of those things. Men have done those things in testing science, they've come up with things that either lined up or didn't line up or things they could prove or things they couldn't prove.

And anyway, by the way, that's how you can tell a real deceiver. They're very close to being like Satan. Anyone who tells you that you don't need a creator, okay, everything was always here. or whatever they come up with. You can tell that person as a liar because everything was not here. Explain to me how everything got here and you'll be here.

Okay. Aliens brought us here. How did the aliens get here? There was a big bang. What, how did the big bang get here? We all came from, there's a book out, lots of books. In fact, there's a guy with a bowtie. I call him the bowtie pasta for brains man, by the way. He says we all came from nothing. We had to be, so here we are.

Pretty good. So I guess he was here at the beginning and saw all of this happen from nothing? Or is he just guessing? It turns out he's just guessing because he never said he was here from the beginning. Anybody who tries to explain the beginning and tries to leave out God the creator Is that from the beginning? Because it's impossible.

Science will not allow you to come to where we are without believing in the creator. It's impossible. So what does the atom have to do with all that? Because the atom is the structure that, in other words, as basic as you go, you're going to end up with a nucleus, electrons and protons. So there's a particle. Did an electron one day just say, I think I'm going to just fly around or the nucleus of the atom? That was an integral part. That was a creation. This is what we're made of, okay? And that's why it says we are made in his image. The image of God is the particles of creation. Everything that's in creation is his. And we are made in his image. That's what that means. We're made of atoms just like he is. He's the head of the atoms, so to speak.

Jim: After you did all this research, and it worked so long, in case somebody missed part one, how long did it take before you became a true follower of Jesus? After you'd done all this research, and you realized, Hey, I'm on the wrong side of this argument. How long did it really take?

Nick Cinelli: I know it took at least two years. Over two years. I don't know if anybody's ever done research continuously for two years, but I'll tell you, you can beat a subject to death in a couple of years.

Jim: Oh, we have access so much today. Yeah. We have access to so much of that. Everything's online today. We got it. It's all easy.

Nick Cinelli: But even if you wanna go back to Britannica, look through books, the old fashioned way that people used to do research, it's still gonna lead you to the same conclusion. Okay. The truth is the truth, no matter how much we try to either change it or fix it to out there. Remember, everybody would like to live their own life, be left alone and not told what to do. Unfortunately, God has a better plan. Okay. He wants us to live an abundant life and live it more abundantly.

We're able to live a more abundant life thanks to the Creator. So why would you want to fight somebody that only promises good and joy for you? If I know my parents absolutely were on my side and only wanted the best for me and so on and so forth why would I deny my parents?

Jim: It's a great question. You've been married to Sue now 22 years you guys have been learning how to be married, which is no, that's no easy task being married for sure. Have you and Sue had a lot of opportunity to take these conversations deeper? Do you guys ever have, hey, tonight, let's just, let's battle about science? When you have friends over, do you get to do this together? Talk to us about how your relationships with Sue has blossomed after you did all this research.

Nick Cinelli: I think it's blossomed in the respect that I've had, different and more profound respect for her. Because when you admit and find out through errors and omissions or whatever you want to call it that you were wrong and she was right. And how could I not have the ultimate respect for her? And yeah, we have our ups and downs, but I think overall we know where we stand as a couple. Because we've gone through a lot.

Remember we had a lot of drives from Tampa to Miami. Okay. So we spent a lot of time talking and then since we've been married, her family's sometimes in one direction, my family's in another and so on. But together we've worked through many things and we're still doing it and we still are worshipers. We still try to go to church. In fact, she went to a women's Bible study last night at our church. When we can't make the physical church, we always watch it online. And I don't know if this will help anybody, but 90 percent of what I watch on TV, including what Sue watches, is Christian television. CTN channel 2 WCLF.

So and I always thank them for putting on such great program. And we're at the point where we're going to support them also financially. But I think a good start is if you don't already watch Christian TV, put that on your menu because there's a lot of good programs that come on there from talk shows to stories about life. And they reiterate the true story.

Jim: As we come to the end of this podcast, a couple more questions for you. Do you think there's any hope for the scientific community today?

Nick Cinelli: Of course, more and more of them are becoming believers of creation. Like I said, there's over a thousand. And these are people from all walks of life around the world, by the way. They're not just American scientists or scientists from India or scientists from Africa. They're everywhere. There's a great mixture. And again, to have a thousand, that's a lot. Because remember, in some parts of the world, To say that you believe in God, you would lose your job So I think if there's a thousand on record, there's probably four or five thousand in reality. That's a lot of scientists.

I don't know how many scientists there are in the world, but it's probably a big number, But remember some people who dabble in it call themselves a scientist many times.

Jim: When you've taken your story to social media, to your family, do you find that people are receptive to the answers that you found in your research? Do you find that people respect that you took time to really look this up?

Nick Cinelli: Not as much as I would think. Remember, sometimes when you believe in a message and you think everybody's gonna fall over backwards to help you or say, Hey, good job. I like what you wrote. There are few and far in between coming and, that's hesitant again because we're afraid sometimes to embrace the truth.

We don't want to tell Nick he did a good job with this book necessarily. Okay. Thank you. Because how about if it offends my mate? How about if it offends my boss? How about if it offends my political party? I don't want necessarily somebody saying I'm on Nick's side and then they agree with what Nick believes.

So it's human nature, and by the way, I don't need anyone to say good job. Just from you is enough. Okay, , but I don't need it because God has blessed me in so many ways. I wish people could experience what I've experienced.

Jim: Okay. That's powerful.

Nick Cinelli: And I tear up many times thinking about it. I tear up when I consider how blessed I am to have Sue. I don't know if her own family even knows that. I know some of the family does. And people have to come to the end of themselves. And that I want to give even my family and other families or relatives time and space. They have to come to it like I came to it. Sure, maybe they would like the book and they would read it, maybe it could turn their life around now. If they're not right, right now, at some point they'll be right.

Jim: Let me ask this one final question. 22 years ago you married Sue, after years of research and realizing the Bible was true. This show is iWork4Him. It's all about the connecting of our faith and our work. And you've had a lot of jobs, mostly sales jobs, because you're a sales guy. You like to sell things. You're good at representing products. How has your faith and this revolutionary understanding that creation is real, how has that impacted how you do it, do your work?

Nick Cinelli: Oh it's changed it 100%. Where at one time as a salesman that you say, sometimes I could exaggerate the truth or cut corners and so on. All salesmen tend to do it, or at least that's the reputation that we have. But now I find out I don't need to do that anymore.

I feel good about myself, my wife and my family. I'm glad I went through this journey. I wish anybody who doesn't believe in the creator would go through their journey. And if their journey is just reading my book, or if their journey is talking to other Christians, I hope more people would invite people that they think would not be receptive to go to church with them, invite them to a Bible study, invite them to a night or a day, depending on when, you have that. Many churches have small groups. Get involved in a small group.

And see if this fits and it makes sense outside of what I think and what I believe. I think people sometimes are afraid to test things out for themselves. And I think that's the bottom line. If you test things out, the truth will set you free and it'll be obvious.

Jim: If somebody wants to get a copy of your book, do you have a way for them to get a copy? Do you have a PDF of your book or a way for somebody to get it? Or can they write to you to get a copy? How does somebody get a copy of your book? The true lies of science?

Nick Cinelli: Not being that technically minded, as we are not where you are I would hope that maybe that would work through you and I could provide you the PDF could you handle the mechanics?

Jim: Yeah, we could probably get that done. Just email me, Jim@iWork4Him. That's Jim at I work the number 4 him. com and I'll get you a copy of Nick's book. The true lies of science. Nick Cinelli. It's been fun knowing you. We've known each other a lot of years already. It's been fun capturing your story today. Thank you for sharing your heart on both part one and part two of this special broadcast. Thank you, Nick Cinelli,, for being here.

Nick Cinelli: Do I have time for one quick thing?

Keep in mind that there's two versions of my book. One a streamlined one. I call it my basic testimony. Then I have another version where it's the same book included footnotes and like the superseded theories and so on. One has footnotes, the proofs, I call it. So there's two versions. One is basic stripped down, just the book I originally wrote. And then one where I've stapled inserts that prove what I'm talking about, like the superseded science and the thousand scientists who believe in Creation and so on all those things. I have footnotes and extra forms just so you know. So there's really two two parts of my book.

Jim: Nick will get me a copy of those PDFs and i'll get them to you if you reach out to me. Jim at I work for him. com. That's jim at I work the number 4 him dot com nick cianelli. Thank you.

You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim Brangenberg. I'm a Christ follower. My workplace, it's my mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him!