Jim: Hey, welcome to a special edition of iWork4Him. Normally Martha and I do interviews with folks who have a story to tell, and we get the short form of that story today. We're going to capture Nick Cinelli's whole story in a few episodes. Nick and I first met on October the 31st, 2013 at a BNI group in Seminole, Florida. Nick's a consummate salesperson and a tremendous networker. And Nick brings laughter to every room he walks into. But today, Nick's going to share the account of how his life was turned right side up. Nick Cinelli, welcome to iWork4Him.

Nick Cinelli: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Jim: I'm glad to have you. Nick, normally at the beginning of every interview that we do, I ask people to tell us their Jesus story. However, today this whole interview is going to be about your Jesus story. So let's just start off with this question. What was your life like before you met Sue?

Nick Cinelli: I considered myself a scientist who knew it all and always felt that science could explain it all because I grew up in an electrical and electronic background and communications and so on. So full of myself, as I would say, not knowing any better at the time.

Jim: So how did you actually meet Sue?

Nick Cinelli: We met Sue because I belong to a dance club with a friend of mine, Tom Dixon, and once we found out that they were having like rock and roll dances all over the state, from Jacksonville down to Miami, we decided to check it out. And after a series of dances at different cities, we found out, we both came to the conclusion that we liked the Daytona Beach dance the best. So Tom and I would take turns driving to Daytona Beach, and just hang out for the weekend and have a good time dancing, meeting people. After a while, you got to know them.

And as it turned out, one year Tom was not able to go. He told me that him and his daughter were going to attend the Gasparilla parade in Tampa instead and couldn't go to Daytona. And as it turned out, Sue, who would later become my best friend and wife had the same experience with her girlfriend. Her girlfriends that she usually would go to the Daytona dance with were not available that weekend. So she drove up by herself and I drove to Daytona by myself because I didn't want to miss the dance.

Jim: So are you really that good of a dancer, Nick? Come on. Really?

Nick Cinelli: I'm not that good of a dancer, but I'm that, that good of a showcasing the woman, as they say. At least in my mind. In other words, you, Hold her out and let her get all the applause and so on. That's what was expected, I think. We just had a good time. A lot of it was going from table to table talking to people you might not have seen in a year and, bringing up what's happened, what's going on, that kind of thing.

Jim: It was a social gathering for you.

Nick Cinelli: Social gathering, which had dancing in it.

Jim: Nice. Nice. I've never been able to put my two feet together in any normal wise direction. So my wife just says, let's just not do that dancing thing. All right. So you and Sue one day ended up, you had to take her back to Miami. And you were having a long conversation as you were driving her back to Miami. Talk to us about that conversation when you first realized she believed in God.

Nick Cinelli: At that point I thought, and I hate to say this, but I thought that she was dumb and stupid basically. Because at that point in my life, I thought everybody knew that there's really no such thing as God because science explains everything. And as, as you probably are going to lead to it was in trying to prove her wrong that there is no God that I came to realize that it was actually science that's been wrong millions of times.

Jim: Let's not jump ahead to the story. Let's talk about that drive you had with Sue. You had a really deep conversation with her.

Nick Cinelli: The really deep conversation I had was in trying to convince her, in my mind anyway, I was thinking of all the different ways that I could prove her wrong, given the opportunity to talk to her. So from what I remember, I think that whole, which was back in the early nineties, was made up of me trying to convince her that there is no God and that science explains everything.

Jim: And when you had those kind of, those conversations with Sue, was she receptive? Did she get angry at you? How did that go? Cause, cause you liked her. You already started liking her. You loved dancing with her already, but you already had the sweets for her, didn't you?

Nick Cinelli: Actually at that point when we first met, we hardly had paid attention to each other although we'd been at dances and I had seen her. It's like one of those things where you say, Oh yeah, I think I've seen her at other dances before and I might've danced with her once or twice. So it wasn't, she wasn't one of my regular dance partners, so to speak.

Jim: So what did you really believe? What did you really believe about science?

Nick Cinelli: I believed that science could explain everything, and I also thought that science was never wrong. And little did I know, it has been wrong billions of times and continues to be wrong as new things are discovered. If you go back just to the atom itself, we thought that the atom was one particle that could not be a split. We've since learned that not only is it not one particle, it was three particles, then later on they found out it was many particles, and you can split it. So much for science being perfect. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Jim: Yeah, we could go way back to when science said the Earth was flat, Nick. And that the moon was made of cheese. You know we've come a long ways from there. Alright, so you decided to do some scientific research to prove that Sue believed a fable. Talk to me about that research that you did, and how'd that work out for you?

Nick Cinelli: As you've alluded to, it didn't work out too good, because the more I dug into it, the more I found out that in essence, if you were to write a book, on the errors of science or the corrections of science, it would be the biggest book in the world because there's, since the beginning of time, there've been over 1 billion corrections.

In fact, one of the things I stumbled on in doing my research, Wikipedia happened to come up with a thing that said, when I was saying, has science ever been wrong? My whole screen lit up. Yeah, these are the top ten science mistakes, twenty mistakes, hundreds of mistakes. So I said I'm really on to something here, because to me it was shocking.

I always thought it was perfect. But then it made sense. It can't be perfect if it's constantly changing. And unlike, for example, the Bible, which doesn't change. From the beginning to end, it's talking about the creation and the love that God has never changes.

Jim: So before this research though - Let's not get ahead because we want to keep people on that cliffhanger. Before this research, did you think the Bible and science had anything to do with each other?

Nick Cinelli: I thought science was absolutely true and I thought the Bible was a fable, just a story that somebody made up.

Jim: But in reality, what did you find?

Nick Cinelli: I found that if anything, the Bible is true and without error, and science has been full of errors since the beginning of time.

Jim: But did you find the Bible and science having any relatability? Anything that, were they tied together, science and the Bible?

Nick Cinelli: They are tied together because the Bible explains science with that popular statement that most people know, whether you're a Christian or not. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And nothing else explains the beginning in true provable items than that statement.

Jim: Yeah. Science is still, they got their big bang theory and there was that TV show too, but they still don't know what caused the explosion or where all the matter came from. They still have a really hard time with that. So they're still making that up. All right. Going back to something you said a second ago. You said, when I was reading your book, and you have a book that you put all this stuff into: The True Lies of Science that you wrote. When I was reading your book, you said you used Wikipedia for your research. I thought you said you were doing real research. Cause Wikipedia is like, is that really research?

Nick Cinelli: Yes. Because it wasn't only Wikipedia because I Googled basically, in my search engine "science mistakes" and so on. That's how it started. And there was hundreds upon hundreds. And one of the topics that struck me was it said, Wikipedia superseded scientific theories.

So to me, I says, wow, this might be interesting because it's going to show a progression of a scientific research that has been proven wrong and superseded by something else. That's why I quoted Wikipedia, but that wasn't the only one I used. I used everything you could imagine that would come up if you Google "science mistakes."

Jim: All right. So what were four or five of the significant things you first realized about science when you were doing your research? Four or five big things where you're like. Oh wow.

Nick Cinelli: The creation, which you can't really explain just by science. And also the long time that everybody talks about, the billions and trillions of years that it took for evolution. Evolution to me is the biggest lie and mistake in science that there ever was. But that's a whole other chapter, which you're probably going to get into later. I don't want to get ahead of myself. But basically, again, if you just count the mistakes, there are so many that if you put it in one book, it would be the biggest book in the world, the mistakes or reconsiderations or reworkings of science.

Jim: In other words, a scientist in the 1800s may have said, here's my theory. Here's what I'm going with. And then in the 1900s, somebody else goes, yeah, but now I've taken the scientist's idea from the 1800s, and I've proven him wrong. And this is what I've realized. Just like we just said about the atom, they thought the atom was a singular item. And then we found out it was part of, it had electrons and neutrons and could be broken apart in pieces. That kind of thing is what you're saying that the things are constantly developing, right?

Nick Cinelli: Right. Constantly changing. And that was the biggest thing because basically what we're saying is that science today is not done changing. It continues to change. And there've been many people who've now have come to realize - you have to remember that one of the things that has influenced mankind is the Darwin theory of evolution. He thought everything began from a simple cell, which we now know it doesn't exist because every cell is complex with the prozoa and nucleus and cells and so on. There is no such thing as a simple living cell. But Darwin didn't know that at the time because DNA had not been discovered, and they didn't have electron microscopes. But with electron microscopes, and the ability to see DNA, nothing could be further from the truth. In terms it could never, ever have started by itself because every cell is unique and completely working.

You don't have to sit there with your arms folded and say, okay, so let's grow and see what you can do. No, if you're looking at a living cell, it's a living cell from the beginning and it works from the very beginning. It doesn't need an orchestra. It doesn't need some guy hitting it with a prong in a petri dish or whatever. A living cell is a living cell from the beginning and the only thing that would explain that is everything was created according to its kind, which means fully functional from the beginning.

Jim: All right, so let's talk about when you're doing all this research, and you talked about these superseded scientific theories, constantly getting superseded, what did you find was behind all of the false narratives and the false facts? You call them lies in the scientific community. Did you find what was behind all of that?

Nick Cinelli: First of all, I think the nature of man is wanting to deny something that supposedly is bigger than him and that he would have to answer to. And it's not anything new. If you look at, for example, without getting into politics, communist countries and so on and so forth, socialists, they all want to deny God.

Why? Because the dictator wants to be treated as a God, and he knows that if people believe in somebody else or something else, they're not going to follow him, and that's basically the story of why God is continuously denied by many leaders because the leaders think they are God, and they don't want to compete.

In other words, they don't want to tell you to do something, and then a Christian or somebody who believes in God finds out something different just by reading his Bible. Hey, this is not right. You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't be saying this, okay? This is how we were created. And that's why they try to deny him at every turn. You can't have two supreme beings. Because as the Bible says, by the way, you will love one and hate the other. You will hate one and like the other and so on.

Jim: All right. So in your book, you go on to say in the next pages that follow the conversation that evolution is a hoax. I thought the theory of evolution had been proven. What do you mean it's a hoax?

Nick Cinelli: It's been proven false. It's a hoax, meaning that even Darwin himself, in his book, if you read his book, it'll say, I believe in evolution. However, I can't explain evolution compared to the human eye. He said the human eye had to have been created because that's the only way it explains that you could see something from the very beginning.

In other words, you don't see one strand and then come back a million years later. Oh, there's another strand and then a million years later. Oh, wait a minute. There's more to this cell than I thought. No, the cell was complex and created from the beginning. It didn't evolve. It can't evolve. Okay? And so basically that's why I used the Darwin thing. He himself admitted the eye is so great and perfect that it had to have been created by a creational method.

Now, here's the rest of the story. But his followers says you can't say that. Because if you're saying that, that means that evolution is not true. And we can't have that, Mr. Darwin. You're gonna mess us all up. So you better say that the eye could be evolved. Then he admits this in his book. He says, okay, all right, I'll go along with you guys, because I don't want to leave evolution out in the cold. So I'll say, okay, it is possible for the eye to have evolved even though he didn't believe it. You can read that in his book. I'm not making this up.

Jim: That's unbelievable.

Nick Cinelli: The average person doesn't know that by the way. They've never read Darwin's book.

Jim: No, most people don't know that Darwin questioned his own theory. And most people don't know that there's a million nerve receptors in one eyeball and there's no way that could happen. I understand. But you found seven major errors in the theory of evolution. What were those seven major errors that you found?

Nick Cinelli: Basically that there is no simple cell. And by the way, one of the things I stumbled on is the fact that if you look at scientific research there's certain rules that it has to abide by. In other words, it has to be able to be proven in the lab, has to be able to be made, other scientists have to agree with it, so on and so forth.

And I found out, not only am I the only one who doesn't believe in evolution and know that it's impossible, but there's hundreds of scientists. And that came up also in my Wikipedia research, by the way or let's just leave it as Google research. Okay. And that is that there've been so many changes that from day one. Remember, he didn't have, again, he didn't know DNA existed. Which is correct from the very beginning and he had no access to an electron microscope Where you can actually look at these particles.

Jim: So what about the laws of thermodynamics? That was something else you also saw that a major error in evolution having something to do with the laws of thermodynamics.

Nick Cinelli: Yeah, if you look one of the law says that nothing can be or everything that is, you can see. And that was an old theory, by the way. And that's not true, because there's a lot of things that we know exist that are invisible. Not only the atom, but a lot of other particles are invisible, and we know that.

Jim: All right, so I want to take a pause here and ask this question, since you didn't prove Sue was wrong after doing all this research, what happened to you?

Nick Cinelli: I became a believer. And one day I had to look at myself and the research I had done and said, wow, was I wrong! And in fact, one of the statements that just prior to that, when Sue realized that I was an atheist, so to speak, at that point she decided that she really didn't want any part of that part of me.

And she says, and this I still remember from 20 years ago, she said one day to me, I don't care if you believe in God or not, but I'm going back to church. I'm tired of this dancing, every weekend, just living for dancing and so on and so forth. I miss not going to church and being with my fellow Christians and friends. And I says, Hey, if that's what you want to do, go ahead. And that's how we started to go back to church.

Jim: You didn't just let her go. You went with her?

Nick Cinelli: Yeah, I went with her.

Jim: So did you ever apologize to Sue that you were wrong?

Nick Cinelli: Besides every day? Of course.

Jim: Yeah. Besides every day.

Nick Cinelli: I didn't want to admit it at first. Remember I was trying to prove her wrong. And this was many years of research. By the way, I'm not alone. There's a lot of famous atheists who became Christians and they became Christians somehow almost to what I went through and trying to prove something that wasn't true or whatever or trying to convert somebody into being an atheist like them.

They found out that they really were the one that was wrong. I'm not alone in this quest. It's been done since the beginning of time, because again, man wants to think he's the ultimate being and he should have to answer to nobody. He doesn't want an ultimate creator that tells.

Jim: Yeah, I always have a theory on that. As long as you deny the existence of God, then you deny the existence of good and evil. And therefore you could do whatever you want to do and have no guilt. But if you admit that there's a God, then you have to admit that there probably is good and evil. And then you have to admit that what you do can be wrong. And then all of a sudden there's guilt. And then you have to deal with how do you deal with that guilt? And that's where Jesus comes in. But that's always my theory is that as long as you deny God, you can do whatever you want to do.

All right. So the theory of evolution. Do you think it's ever been tested truly against the typical scientific method that they always tell us you got to believe the science? Or is do you think that there's some evil political agenda behind pushing evolution as a fact?

Nick Cinelli: Yes. See, if you can convince people that everything began on its own and grew on its own and came from nothing, then that means we are nothing and we can do whatever we want because there's no Ultimate truth. So that's one of the reasons why evolution is pushed. Do you think a communist leader wants to admit that there's a God? No, because his people would rebel. First of all, God tells us we have freedom. He created us with freedom of mind, freedom of choice. The government didn't give us that. God gave us that.

That's why we're able to think what we think. But the government has different ideas for us. They want us, one group, they want to be slaves. One group, they want to do something else. One group, they want to be the workers. One group, they want to be the ones who feed off the fat of the land. And that would work fine if there was no God who says everyone is created in his image and we are all free. Okay, again, we didn't get freedom from the government. We got freedom from our creator.

Jim: So going back to the beginning of that question, though, do you think the theory of evolution has ever truly been tested against the scientific method?

Nick Cinelli: Yes, over and over. And it's proven wrong because it's impossible for evolution to be and to was. In other words, you'd have to start with what was the first thing that happened for evolution to begin. And you're dead right there. Because whether you say the Big Bang, this, that, and the other thing, aliens, where do they come from?

"Okay, I believe in the Big Bang. I believe in evolution. I believe..." okay. All you have to do to stop that person in their track, where did it come from? Where did that first simple cell that you think existed come from? Where did the first particle come from? Where did the first planet, wherever you say it was first, how did it get here? And if you say came out of nothing, you're violating the laws of science because science says everything comes from something.

Jim: Right. All right. You state right after you, you go through those very valid points about testing the theory of evolution, you state that evolution is the biggest deception, lie, and evil ever perpetuated on the human, really the population of humans on this planet. So if it's such a sham, why does it keep getting pushed on us?

Nick Cinelli: Oh, very easily. Okay. Because they think that by pushing evolution, you don't need a creator. And if you don't need a creator, then you don't need someone to tell you what's right or wrong. Do you think the government, look at today's government, do you think they like to be told that they're right or wrong? How many times have they been told they're wrong, but they still do it and fund this and fund that? Without getting into things that they fund, the average person knows the government is pretty corrupt, no matter what side you're on. Whether it's a Republican or a Democrat or whatever. We all have to admit that government is not perfect. It tries to pretend it's perfect. And that's where it gets its power from.

Jim: You said earlier, Nick, that in your research, that you found tons and tons of scientists. And in your book, you say you found 900 scientists that don't agree with evolution. Where are those scientists and why don't we ever hear about them on the news? Why don't I ever hear from those guys?

Nick Cinelli: Because remember in the early days, if you didn't go along and tow the line, so to speak, for the government, they could have you thrown in jail. You could lose your job. Remember, you always had to go with the flow, so to speak. You were ostracized. Even today, if you are on one side of the political spectrum, as an example, the stuff that's happening with Hamas and Israel, okay, if you're not on one side or the other, people will think that you're either very hateful or dumb or whatever.

This is humankind. Human nature always wants to disallow, so to speak, opposing speech. It doesn't want to be told it's right or wrong. It doesn't want to be told that you have the same freedoms as I do. Government wants to say the freedoms you have is because I'm giving them to you. The left has given them to you or the right has given them to you. They don't want to say God gave them to you because that would mean there's no need for government. Except to protect us and our borders, and that's a whole other thing.

Jim: Okay. All right. As we finish up this segment of your story, because your story gets so much better, in your expertise, what's more reliable: the scientific community behind evolution or the biblical community of scientists behind creation?

Nick Cinelli: Behind creation without a doubt. And in fact evolution fizzles. And the hundreds of scientists, by the way, almost a thousand scientists from all walks of life, many from places like Harvard and so on. Believe it or not, many of them were Christians. Now, over a period of time, some might've changed their views. Just like atheists become Christians sometimes and Christians become atheists sometimes, depending who they listen to and who they're following and so on. It works both ways.

But there's literally a thousand scientists who have gone on the record. Those are just the ones willing to go on the record. And you can look those up just by Google, okay? Scientists who believe in evolution or scientists who don't believe in evolution and you'll get a list.

Jim: We're gonna hit pause right here in Nick's story and pick it up in the next episode labeled Nick Cinelli Part 2. Thanks for tuning in to iWork4Him. And thank you, Nick Cinelli, for sharing your story. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim Brangenberg. I'm a Christ follower, and my workplace, it's my mission field. But ultimately iWork4Him!