9/13/23 - 2007: What Would God Say About Your Priorities?
Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.
Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.
Jim: There's an order to all things, especially how we order our days, but when the kids are crying, the vendors are calling, the laundry needs to be done, you need to fire someone, your car breaks down, and you have a church meeting to go to, that order just seems to go out the door.
But scripture's clear. When we put God first, everything else seems to fall into proper order. Today, we're talking about God's given priorities. Joining us are some longtime friends of iWork4Him, Taiwan and Dr. Sh'nai Simmons. Their story is one of determining those priorities and living them out day by day. Taiwan and Sh'nai, welcome back to iWork4Him. It's so good to have you.
Taiwan Simmons: Yes We're so excited. We're so excited to be back with you guys. Thanks for having us on the show again.
Martha: Oh you bet. And we're excited to for you guys to impart great conversation with our friends that are going to be listening in. So Sh'nai, let me start with you.
Jim: And I just want to add, if I just add it, the reason we're talking about priorities is you know, this is a show talking about the intersection of faith and work. And so often our priorities get out of whack and work takes the number one place and then everything around us start to crumble. And we've all worked around people that have lives like that, where work got out of place. Whether they're a business owner or business leader or just somebody that worked ridiculously hard as an entrepreneur and their family gets impacted negatively. And we just wanted to have a conversation with Taiwan and Sh'nai because they are feeding into married couples all the time just like Martha and I and we've seen the detrimental repercussions.
Ooh, two four syllable words (counting) in a row. We've seen the repercussions of people ignoring these priorities. And we just wanted to spend a week talking about priorities. All of our power thoughts are talking about priorities. Our blog is talking about priorities, and the show tonight's talking about priorities. Okay, now Martha, go ahead.
Martha: Alrighty. So with priorities in mind, let's start with the number one priority. Now, Sh'nai, how long have you and Taiwan been married?
Sh'nai Simmons: It's going to be 27 years in December.
Martha: Excellent.
Jim: How long did it take-, when did it start getting hard to keep your priorities straight? With kids and work, and did that ever, maybe you guys ever struggle with it? Did you guys ever struggle with getting your priorities straight?
Sh'nai Simmons: Oh, yes. That's a regular struggle. That's a regular struggle because priorities after you get from the first, first four levels God, your spouse, your kids church work, other things come in.
And I think for us it first became difficult with children in the beginning. We have been known to be overachievers and so when we had children, so we had our first son. We had him alone for about two months and then we became foster parents for three of my siblings. So in our first season of parenthood, we became parents of four very quickly. So priorities absolutely became a challenge immediately.
Jim: Taiwan, what did that conversation look like when you realized, Hey, I'm not getting enough time? I'm not getting enough Sh'nai time with these kids are interrupting my life. What did that conversation sound like?
Taiwan Simmons: Oh goodness. That's a question for the ages because at first you don't really know what to say and how to say it. We were so locked in at first. We were so focused on doing what we wanted to do. Like Sh'nai said, we're overachievers. So we wanted to run this business and then we wanted to make sure the kids were in private school. And then we wanted to make sure that everything was lined up a certain way.
So you just get really focused and Sh'nai calls it, what do you call it? When I get hyper? You get hyper vigilant and then you don't pay attention at first to the things that you're missing out on. So we didn't really have a whole bunch of conversations in the beginning about, Hey, I'm not spending time with you and you're not spending time with me. We were just going. And we were just going and we were just going. Until things started to break down and that's when you have to have the conversation.
Martha: Exactly, and I know that for you guys and for us our connection started with the conversation around marriage and really understanding how important it is to feed into our marriages. But like you said, first priority is God. So a lot of times we have the flesh pulling at us, the kids and the like you said, added kids.
You guys went all in with parenting at that stage and you're in the flesh trying to figure all that out and then where does your relationship with the Lord, fall into that when you have sleepless nights and you're juggling new expectations in life? So can you recall how you tried to prioritize the, all the priorities, not just trying to fit each other in there?
Taiwan Simmons: Yeah, I can take that. So I was always the faith guy when we got together. And it really was just me doing that when we got together. It was about just making a decision that we had to prioritize our faith. And that wasn't easy because when we first started off Dr. Sh'nai had some challenges with, scripture and belief, and we had to really have some really serious conversations. But what I learned was, is that it was more about my example and that I led in that area. And when we would have challenges, I would say we got to trust God. We got to believe God. And I believe after doing that for a period of time, it helped us to shift our priorities into being focused more on what God said first versus what our flesh was telling us to do.
Jim: Sh'nai, what was the inner struggle about? Did you grow up in a household where those priorities were demonstrated?
Sh'nai Simmons: We were new converts. I was pregnant with my first son and we were new converts. We were just learning who God was. I was just learning who God was. And so the struggle was, this is a completely new paradigm.
He's the head of the household and I'm supposed to put him before children. And there was no example of a man as a leader in our home. So it was really, what is this thing called Christianity? What does that mean? What does that look like? What does that mean for us? What does that mean for me as a parent? I had a model of being a mom and that model, the model that I built in my mind, was what I didn't want to be. But it wasn't a model of what to be.
And so we had to work that out, over the time as we grew in our faith and we grew as a couple. We knew we didn't want to recreate what we were raised in. So we kept seeking examples that didn't look like what we were raised in.
Taiwan Simmons: And I want to tell you, you gotta understand. I didn't have it all figured out either. When I was a kid, I was raised by my great grandparents who were Jehovah witnesses. My dad was a Muslim. My mom was Catholic or Baptist, depending on where she was mentally. And so this was my upbringing. Somebody say confusion, right?
So that was what I learned was faith and what was God, but it didn't make sense to me and I didn't recognize and identify God and all those things. So I brought all that into our relationship trying to figure all of that stuff out.
Jim: In your great grandparents household where you were being raised, did you see these biblical priorities being laid out?
Taiwan Simmons: No.
Jim: So let's talk about these priorities because I think it's, now you guys been down 27 years of marriage. We've been down 37 years of marriage. We figured this out the hard way. We've all made mistakes where we've put work way too high in the category. We've all made a mistake where we put kids too high in the category. And in the proper thing, and let's just, banter back and forth about this a little bit, but in my opinion, but I believe the scripture backs it up, but I can't find all the different scriptures to back it up but I, this just makes sense when you look at scripture.
God's got to be number one, our relationship with him is number one important relationship. It's why he saved us. It's why he created us. Then we get married and that relationship becomes our number two priority. Our marriage is a mess if we don't have God as number one priority. Our number two priority starts to hurt.
Then we have kids. That's what God wanted us to do. God wanted us to have children. He wanted us to be fruitful and multiply and absolutely have a good time doing it. And so we have kids, but kids when they're little, they tend to be a little demanding. Oh, yeah, no, the whole time. They're all about demanding. There always demanding.
Then God gives us work as a gift in the garden. He gave the work as a gift to Adam and Eve, as a gift for them to occupy their time when they're not busy with their spouse or their kids or with him. They have work to do and then we've got hobbies and volunteer work and all this other stuff. How what do you guys do?
I mean you've been married 27 years. You guys got this figured out. You'd never have any problems balancing this anymore.
(laughter)
Taiwan Simmons: As we just said, Jim, it's a consistent struggle, and we always have to make sure that we realign and we have a lot of conversations. We're always communicating about what's next and what we should do and how we should do it and continuing to keep the alignment. Like I said earlier, me being the example, because it all starts with me and me having the ability to demonstrate to her that I'm in alignment, right?
Matthew 6: 33, seeks ye first the kingdom of God and all his righteousness and all those things shall be added unto you. So for me, it's being able to prioritize me and my vertical alignment. And I believe that she seeks him and she also follows me as I seek him. That's number one.
Martha: I love how transparent you were just a moment ago about your upbringing because there's, that's why we're having this conversation. There are so many, all of us can use more modeling of what it looks like to do this well. I don't think there is a person on earth you can talk to, any of the great, icons, the heroes of our faith, and even them more likely they will say, I've still struggled with keeping my priorities in the right area, in the right way.
And so that's why we have this conversation. But to say, yeah, I didn't have a good model. I want to do better. And when I fail and when life gets busy and something gets out of alignment that I reassess and I lead well. And so thank you, Taiwan, for saying that because we need to give ourselves that ability to realign. We were just talking, Jim, about that, the verses in our Sunday school class on Sunday, about how God's mercies are new every morning.
And isn't it a wonderful thing that they are? That we can turn that page and start over again the next day? Because there are times, I know for us, I was thinking back to when we wrote our three books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him , and iRetire4Him. In that season of writing and editing, you can guarantee that our priorities were heavy on a certain project.
Now, I don't believe there was neglect and it wasn't tipped upside down, but for a season, that was a huge priority, and it had a - you going to school, the things that you've done in life. They ebb and the flow. And talk to our listeners about what they might be experiencing right now and just give them a word of encouragement that you know, it's okay. It's about this realignment. Sh'nai, why don't you address that?
Sh'nai Simmons: Yeah, I think it's important to go back to seeking first. Because it's easy to just see it in a very logical way, like God, spouse, children, work. But there is the opportunity for God to redirect you. If you're seeking God first, and something's out of balance in your life, it's God can very well say, I know the children are important, but if you don't take care of this at work, you're not going to be able to feed them.
He, when I was in school, someone came to me, a wonderful woman of God who was a pastor's wife and co pastor of her church, and she saw me struggling to do school and parent and go to work. And she ministered to me and she said, your husband is equally capable of taking care of the children, like he is not incapable. They can have amazing opportunities and experiences with him while you're on this assignment.
And so when you are properly aligned with God's instruction, not picking up stuff that you want to pick up, but doing what God has ordained you to do, he will tell you if you have to rewrite the order. He will tell you if you need to put 70 percent in the children right now and 30 percent at work.
Or if you need to put 80 percent in your husband and 10 percent in the church. He's gonna, he's gonna tell you because he knows that he ordains what it is that he wants you to do at a given time. And that's the beauty of trusting the scripture. All these things will be added because God can reroute you. You just have to trust it.
Martha: That reminds me of someone that I really respected in their office. They showed Jesus at the center. And so the real priority is having him at the center of everything we do. So it's not, there's not divisions. Yes, it's God as a priority, but it's because he's in the center of our relationship with our spouse. He's in the center of the life with our kids. He's in the center of the work that we're doing. And to me, that's the, that like narrow hitting the center of the target, it's like he's at the center, so no matter where my focus is at this moment, it's still him at the center helping me to make the decisions and do the work that he's called me to do.
What do you think of that, Jim?
Jim: I love that idea. And what's been interesting, if I think of the thing that's gotten in the way in our marriage the most, it's been work because we both love to work. Kids, we didn't have our lives centered on our kids, we only had two kids living at home, even though we have three kids, but we went through stages because of foster and adoption, but our work gotten away and keeping a balance on our work so that we didn't neglect our own marriage, especially because we got empty nesters at such an early age.
Like it was easy to work all the time because nobody else was demanding our time, but I think it goes back to, we're also setting an example. You're setting an example for your kids. We're setting an example for our kids and we're setting an example for the neighbors kids. And the neighbor's marriages and the marriages at church, they're all looking at us going, okay Taiwan and Sh'nai and Jim and Martha, they're ministry leaders.
What's their marriage look like? How's that look? Because people are watching because just like you guys didn't grow up with a marriage to emulate, there's a lot of people out there, all kinds of people, 50 plus percent of them didn't grow up with a marriage to look at and go, that's what it looks like to have a Christian marriage.
There's a lot of people that didn't grow up with that. So I, It's just a great conversation. Sh'nai, Taiwan is talking about how he's keeping his relationship with the Lord number one, keep an eye on the Lord. But what does it look like for you as a mom, as a psychologist, as a, you're a writer, you're a speaker, you're doing a lot of things.
What does it look like in your life to keep God your life's first priority?
Sh'nai Simmons: It's a struggle. It's a struggle. It's a struggle. I'm one point of correction. I'm a therapist, mental health therapist. I don't want to misrepresent, but yes, I am a healthcare practitioner and it is a struggle. I have to fight for that.
I was not, as I said, growing up, that wasn't a natural part of my life and being a worker was. Being responsible was. Being parentified and taking care of other people, all of that was very much a natural part of my life. So I have to endeavor to be disciplined in one way, shape, form or fashion to keep God first.
Now, he is my moral compass. There's nothing that I do that's not done with the lens of my understanding of how he wants me to show up and operate. But if I am not as devoted as I need to be, if I'm not studying, I'm not worshiping, I'm not praying as much as I need to be, then I will feel out of balance.
And so when I recognize that maybe I'm sharper, maybe I'm more irritable, maybe I don't have, I don't have much patience, it's a indicator for me that I need to, like Taiwan, I need to reassess. When's the last time I've been in my word? Am I, did I break my routine? What's happening here?
And so I, it's a struggle for me because those other things come very natural for me and this part of my life, even though it's over 20 years I've been those doing those other things for more than 20 some odd years.
Taiwan Simmons: Yeah, that's what I feel your prayers for me guys. Thank you so much. I receive those prayers.
(laughter)
Jim: I noticed the blood seeping between your teeth when she's talking about when she's having a bad day and you're biting your tongue. I saw that.
There's so many tools that help us be more efficient with our free time. One of those is watching videos and listening to them while you're getting ready for work or during a workout. In fact, this interview can be watched on our youtube channel or on Rumble, just search for iWork4Him.
That's I work the number four him and subscribe to get notifications and watch all of our previous episodes. We've got hundreds of videos out there and we're going to put the link for YouTube and rumble right here in the show notes on the podcast.
Martha: So Taiwan, what does it look like in your life to have your spouse in second place? What does that look like?
Taiwan Simmons: You're trying to set me up. Positionally, yes, she is second place, but that is just positionally, according to God's order. She is my best friend. She's my business partner. She's my wife, she's my everything. We call each other our ride or dies.
And, with that being said, I had to build that foundation before I say this. It's tough because God is holding me accountable for not just how I'm doing, but also how she's doing. And I don't take that very lightly. So it's my responsibility to check her to discern what she's dealing with and what she's going through and figure out how to help her in her journey as well.
And that's tough sometimes. But what I've learned is that I can't be her dad. I can't parent her through this process. I really have to understand and learn where she is particularly. Somebody very wise just said recently that every three and a half years I get a new wife. I have to figure out how I'm going to navigate the seasons of her life that she may be dealing with and how those changes impact her, but also how they impact me. And she's doing the same thing for me.
Martha: I just want to affirm you in something because over the years that we've known you, I have heard you audibly talk about leadership in the home and leading your wife and your focus on it, whether there's times where it's hard or it's easy, your focus is on it.
And I affirm you in that because I've heard you say it, that it's important for me to lead. It's, even if you're just saying, God's got this we don't know all the answers, but we're going to walk this out together, whatever it might be. And I just- what a great example for the people that you lead and the people listening to this show and the many other places where you have a place of influence because just hearing you say that gives permission for the other men in their homes to, to do that as well.
I think the common theme here is we don't all have it figured out, but we know what God desires from us and we need to move in that direction.
Jim: But I also know what when you're what you're saying, Taiwan. When you're addicted to your spouse it's a serious addiction. And so it's hard to keep your wife second when you know, you're totally addicted to your wife. So I get that because you know, I often am in danger of putting Martha too high up on my priority list because I really like her.
Taiwan Simmons: You drank the kool aid too Jim, I know yes, that's right.
Jim: I drank that kool aid lot longer. You guys were little kids when I drank that kool aid
(laughter)
Jim: All right, so Martha, why is it critical? We've had a lot of conversations with maybe 80 or 90 couples over the last 25 years. Why is it critical the kids are the number three priority?
Martha: I think that it is critical because the world It tells us differently. The world tells us, do everything for your kids. Your kids are entitled to so much and you have to keep them busy and expose them to all these things. And the minute you do that, the kids start to think that the world revolves around them and that they are the center of the universe. And as much as we might think that our kids are, that is so unhealthy for us to teach them that.
And we want the best for them, but we want them to become responsible adults that love the Lord and can give back to the world that God has put them in. So the danger with not having them in the right spot is that they become, this is assuming you're putting them, elevating them too high on your priority list, that you're giving them a false sense of what the world really looks like.
And so not only for their sake, but for your family's sake and function. That's why we have to be so careful.
Jim: All right. So Taiwan and Sh'nai - work was supposed to come, it's not supposed to come before God. It's really not supposed to come before our spouse or our kids. Yet work is necessary to support our spouse and kids. Why should work be in that priority position? Why is it so important that we keep work in check?
She got the doctorate first. I think maybe she should go first.
Taiwan Simmons: That's okay. I can answer that.
Sh'nai Simmons: He said she got the doctorate first which means possibly a second I don't know
Jim: I wasn't being prophetic. I'm not
(laughter)
Taiwan Simmons: She just took that layup, and she's trying to throw that out there because unless Jesus comes down physically, I've said that I'm not furthering my education. Okay, that's a sidebar. But anyway, for all the reasons that we have talked about because when your alignment is off, it perpetuates things.
It creates other problems, so if God is not first, your wife is not second and you don't focus on your family, then you setting yourself up for your family to feel neglected, your wife to feel neglected. And on top of that, if God is not at the anchor and at the source of all those things, you actually are setting yourself up for Idolatry and for things to be in and out of balance. Idolatry is a killer in your marriage and in your relationship.
Jim: For sure. So what do you think in the kingdom? You guys have been working in the church volunteering in your church for a long time. You had a phenomenal church and in Virginia, you got a phenomenal church down there in Tampa Bay. You interact with a lot of Christians, you interact with a lot of people who are pre Christian, pre believers. Who do you think most needs to hear this conversation in the Kingdom of God?
Taiwan Simmons: Jim, you are profound. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to say everybody needs to hear this. Um, there's not somebody who's arrived and who has figured it out. I think for us, like you said, we're in spaces where we're around our folks at church, we're around our folks in the community, in the streets, and Sh'nai and I are always having conversations about our experiences with couples and just about how it's unfortunate that, and I'm gonna speak for myself, she can sign or co sign on this, I found that the people who should have it figured out, they don't have it figured out.
And the people who shouldn't have it figured out, don't have it figured out. So we all need to figure it out, right? And the only way that we can do that is, is that we have to have an anchor in the middle of that who is Christ.
Martha: And the truth of the matter is biblical principles work for everyone, whether they put their faith in the biblical principles and the salvation we know of that is written in scripture, the principles still apply and we know that they are valid and they help us in our daily walk.
So no matter who we share that with it can be a blessing to them. So let's tie that into your book that you guys wrote: get in touch the ABCs of a strong Christian marriage. How can that help our listeners keep their priorities in check?
Jim: Wow. If you're not watching on video. Y'all saw that, right? If you're not watching on video, there's a little hand to hand combat there in the studio on the other end right there.
Sh'nai Simmons: Yeah, because I was still on the last question.
Jim: Yeah, go ahead. Go back. It's fine.
Sh'nai Simmons: Yeah, because in the work that we do, I do think that clergy is at risk of not properly operating in these priorities. Because oftentimes they mistake the work that is done at church for putting God first. And unfortunately, in some atmospheres, that is also perpetuated through the levels of staff and volunteer, and so there's this propensity for folks to be walking around in the false balance because they're serving God, but they're not properly prioritizing their home life.
I've gone in too many homes that were in disarray, but the individual never misses a service, never misses a volunteer situation, never misses a meeting. But you can't find your children's socks for school. And that's, I got stuck there because I think everybody needs to hear the message, but I do think there is a vulnerability in the faith world for faith leaders who misappropriate their church work for serving God to the point where he and I recognized at one point that even though Sunday was our Sabbath, we were working so we realized that we weren't really taking a Sabbath. And we fight now. We don't always get it and get it all the way through but we adopted starting a Sabbath on Saturday and so shutting down mid Saturday because we knew we were gonna be, he's a pastor at the church. We knew he was going to be working .And so I just didn't want to skip that nugget that has become very prevalent in our time.
Jim: I was just saying it really goes down to so many people think that doing stuff for God is the same as being with God. And God is not interested in all the really fantastic things you do for him. He wants a relationship with you.
And that's a big difference and we really are out of time. And I want to make sure people know, listen, if you want to hear more nuggets of wisdom from Taiwan and Sh'nai, get a copy of their book, get in touch, the ABCs of a strong Christian marriage. It's available.
Martha: We'll put a link in the show notes.
Jim: We will put a link and you can get it on Amazon. It's a great book. It's just practical. And that's what I like. Just practical, fun, great stories, just practical.
Martha: Yeah. We'll have all those things in the show notes for everybody to listen to or to connect with. And thank you so much for this conversation. But if you're looking for a quick way to prepare for your work from a biblical perspective, try subscribing to the iWork4Him Power Thought found on your favorite platform or the link can be right in the show notes here too. And it's just one minute every day to help you set up your heart right before you enter your work.
Jim: Taiwan and Sh'nai Simmons. Thanks for being on iWork4Him today. Thanks for sharing from your hearts and being honest about the fact that you got some priority issues at times.
Sh'nai Simmons: Yes. Thanks for having us on this show as always, man.
Taiwan Simmons: We love you guys. It's been a pleasure.
Jim: You guys too. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.