Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd t. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Steve and Jackie Green, co founders of the Museum of the Bible and president of Hobby Lobby.

We'll be focusing on how they lead and strive to create a culture of belonging at both their organizations. Steve and Jackie Green. Welcome.

Steve Green: Great to be here. Thanks for having us.

Jim: We're so glad to have you guys So before we start talking about your leadership roles and your perspective on how God is using you to create a culture of belonging at Hobby Lobby, Tell us both of you and what Jackie will - ladies first - How you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered in the midst all the things you're doing.

Jackie Green: Well, that's a really big question. And I think it starts with just personal faith. You, you have to work at it. It's sort of like a muscle that you have to exercise, right? If you don't work at it, it's gonna go lax. And I think that's the same with our faith. I think we, you know, through prayer, through reading God's word and those times with God, and being in a, in a, in a church for us, it's really important to be fed. So I think that's, that's where we would start.

Jim: But you guys travel all the time. Jackie, do you guys have a small group that you get to meet with that is your core people, your people, your, that you and Steve hang out with it? You know, you could share with them and they pray over you and keep you in line.

Jackie Green: Well, I do. Steve and I together are in a small group, although we have our church family that we're really connected with, but I have a group of ladies that - we call it therapy there. There are 10 of us, we call it therapy 10 and that we meet once a month and we, we share prayer requests.

That's mainly what we do, is how can we pray for one another and stay engaged and connected and know what's happening in each other's lives? Because everybody, you know, at this age, we're all really busy and going a lot of different directions. So that's been really essential and helpful for me.

And then family, we have our family group, Steve and I, we have six kids, you know, and there are 18 of us now with our kids and grandkids and our son and daughter in law. And so we have a fam bam and we pray for each other through that too, and put out prayer requests. So that's really been helpful.

Jim: That's very nice.

Martha: Incredibly powerful. So Steve, how about you? What is it that you - how do you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered in the midst of all that you're leading?

Steve Green: Yeah, I would say that similar what comes to mind mostly with the faith is being in God's Word, being in Scripture.

I read it daily on a regular basis. Many years I will do a plan where I read through the Scripture in a year. This year I'm not doing that. I'm focused on the Psalms and the Proverbs. But I also - one of the small groups that we have is our Sunday school class at our church. And there's three of us that teach.

So I'll rotate teaching. And so I'll kind of do maybe reading broad sections throughout the year, but when I do a teaching lesson, I will go deep in a small passage, just whatever that passage is, and we'll just try to go deep in there. There's a couple of ways of getting into God's word and obviously scripture says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.

So the more I get into scripture, I think the stronger my faith is and, and that's a core. And being, you know, staying Christ centered, what comes to my mind there is I think God has a way of doing that just by bringing challenges through life. Everybody faced challenges just over the last few years. And for 2. 5 weeks, we had all of our stores closed because of COVID when it first came on. And you know, it drives you to God. It drives you to say, God, what? What's what's going on? What do we do? And so I think the challenges of life are what really drive us to stay in tune with God.

Jim: Yeah. What drives you to your knees is what makes you closer to Jesus. No question about that. So as leaders of the Museum of the Bible and a leader of Hobby Lobby. What are you what have been the keys to creating a culture of belonging for your teams there? Steve? Why don't you start off?

Steve Green: Okay, I think that it starts with having a purpose. You know, obviously directly a purpose is to be the best we can. We want to be the best craft retail that we can be. We want to provide the service the product that our customer wants at the best price.

There is a purpose. And so those that we bring on, we want them to be the best they can be because that's what we're striving to do. And when you're all working for his same goal, I think it's a bit of a definition of fellowship. It's two or more fellows in the same ship, two more people on the same side of the struggle.

And so when you take the challenge of being the best you can be, then that brings some community. But I think there's another layer, another level of that, and that is why we want to be the best we want to be, and that has become more public over the years, starting with when we started putting newspaper ads in the newspaper at Christmas and Easter, which ultimately led to us closing our stores on Sundays, and obviously we became very public with the, the Supreme Court case.

And a lot of that - just is behind that is a bigger purpose that we have and that is to be a light in our world. We want to be as profitable as we can be because we're giving half of our profits away. And as we do that, we're sharing the love of God with as many people as we can. And there are many people that we think that we attract because they, they are attracted to that bigger purpose. And that I think helps develop community.

Jim: Steve, let me just, as a follow up to this one, you got, I think last I'd looked online, 43, 000 employees or something, but some ridiculously large number. I'm sure you don't have it down to the number. These are not all believers that work for you. So you've created a culture of belonging, no matter what people believe. How does that play out because that's a challenge because you want everybody to know you don't have to sign up and sign a statement of faith in order to be able to work at Hobby Lobby.

Steve Green: Right, right. And I think that goes to that first purpose of just we want to be the best retailer. And there is a certain amount of pride in your job when you know you're doing a good job. So some may not have an interest in what our bigger purpose is. But just the pride of doing a good job and you know, that's what we're striving to do.

And we're finding and looking for those that want to do that as well. And they don't have to have the same Christian belief that we do, but if they're doing a good job then that's what we're looking for is good people. And we have thousands 40 some odd thousand good people that make this company the success it is.

Jim: When we come back, Jackie, we're gonna ask you, what are some of those challenges you deal with as you guys have built the culture at the Museum of the Bible and together you continue to influence Hobby Lobbies across the country. You're listening as we talk with Steve and Jackie Green. Hang on for a minute. We'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back. We talk today with Steve and Jackie Green about creating a culture of belonging. Martha?

Martha: So Jackie, let's talk about culture that you have an influence over and you've seen some of the challenges that are there that keep kind of push back against creating a belonging culture. What, what have some of those challenges been?

Jackie Green: Well, we have a long list of challenges. But I would say that, you know, over time, we've had a challenge, just first of all, as a family with our family business. You know, and many people know the challenge that we've gone through with our stance for life and and freedom of religion and, you know, that was a big deal.

So it was a big challenge, I would say. And then also on a personal level, we've had challenges with our, within our family and with our children and some loss of children and our grandchildren and things like that, that have been you know, real. You know, you can't separate your, your workspace from your family space completely, right?

So I usually talk into the family space and Steve goes into the workspace. So the emotional part though, that comes alongside when you have challenges at home and within your family or within a marriage, I think are very real things that people don't look at. And that might be a different direction than you thought I was going to go with that question.

Martha: No, but I love it because really the reality is, is all of your employees at all of your locations are dealing with those same things as well. So, you know, finding out how to See everybody as real people that they're dealing with them Just like you are and and you know, I think that's one of the things that God gives us those challenges; It's how your people are watching you and how you respond as well, so...

Jackie Green: Well, and I will say that Steve and I, early on in our marriage, you know, we Felt such a strong conviction mutually that if God gave us children, that those children would be our first ministry and our home. And so regardless of what we did you know, at work or in every area of our life, the main thing was for us, our children. And that's the first ministry that God gave us.

And so trying to keep them and our home a priority has been a challenge, but also something that we've found we need to be very intentional to do. And it's worth it. You know, we've all heard the saying probably that in the end, you don't hear people on their deathbed saying I wish I'd spent more time in the office. What they'd really long for would be more time with their family and the people that they love.

So we've tried to keep that a priority. And and of course it is a challenge when you're off and you're traveling and you're doing, you know, big things, big things that seem important to the world. But you know, what's really important is like, don't forget, it's important for you to be focused on your home too. And that we don't wanna lose and forsake our children and our marriage for winning the world. So that's been important.

Martha: Amen

Jim: Steve, Jackie brings up a great point and she did take us on a different direction. I love it because honestly the livelihoods of thousands and thousands of families in america depend on you and Jackie staying married. And the reputation of the Lord is on the line on you and Jackie staying married. And you got your six kids and their spouses and their families all looking to you for leadership in marriage. And obviously, Steve, I've met your dad. I know you had a great example at home. How are you guys making sure that your marriage stays strong when you have all these things pulling at you in so many different directions?

Steve Green: Well, obviously when we had our six kids at home it was more of a challenge to spend time together because life was busy raising our kids. We homeschooled for 13 years, our first four kids and life was busy, but we did it together and enjoyed it. We are fortunate today that we're able to spend more time together because Jackie has been more a part of the Museum of the Bible, where she was not and did not have the time to spend with me when our kids were at home and were homeschooling.

I would travel overseas and be gone for a couple weeks at a time. But we're in a different season of life today. And each season's different. Each season has its challenges. But I love being able to do Museum of the Bible with my wife.

Martha: Hmm. You know that you just made a really great segue because I want to talk about the Museum of the Bible a little bit.

So most listeners have probably been in a Hobby Lobby store, but I'm guessing there's a lot of people listening that have yet to be at the Museum of the Bible. And we have had the privilege of being there several times. We tell people about it all the time. And I want you to take a moment just now. Jackie, maybe you can do this and tell us about the heart behind the Museum of the Bible and what your hopes are and the vision for its future.

Jackie Green: Well, the mission statement of Museum of the Bible, or a portion of it, is "inviting all people to engage with the transformative power of the Bible." And so, you know, we love that. We feel like there are people that love the Bible that come into the museum and they are encouraged and inspired and they're growing and they're learning new things. And it just helps give them, you know, just add to their foundation that they are living their life by.

So on the other hand, I love that there are people that don't necessarily know anything about the Bible that come in and they are learning and exploring and have opportunity for growth there too.

So I, I just, that's one of the things I love is that it can reach anybody. Wherever they are in their knowledge or understanding of the Bible, it's going to do something for you. You're going to learn something. And it's also very immersive. So it's for all ages. It's for children, it's for older people, you know, there's going to be something that's going to be fun and immersive and interactive in the museum for anybody.

We have a ride that you can fly through DC, you know, I mean, I could go on and on. But you know, we're pretty excited about it. And we, we love that people that are actually in the museum, we hear it all the time. It's, it's just something they love. They want to bring their family. They want to bring their friends, their kids' schools to come. And that's what it's all about. It's just expanding and inviting all people to engage with the Bible.

Martha: You know, and it's so brilliant because it's there by other museums. People can come to it from that perspective, maybe more inquisitive. They don't really know the Bible yet, but they can come because they've gone other places. And I'm just going to put in my little thing, plug there too, is your restaurant has to draw people in too because the food is so good. It's like I know I remember our first time over there I posted a picture on Instagram and like your social media people were all over it and they're like, oh, we're so glad. Do you like the food and I'm like, how could you not go there just for that even? So a great job there. Just anybody who's thinking about that meal.

Jim: I know right? It's in the top 10 of meals i've had in my life so...

Martha: It was so tasty, but such a great experience for every age and just like you said.

Jim: So, Steve, what about your vision and your hope for the Museum of the Bible for the future? Where's it going?

Steve Green: Well, and, to add on to what Jackie was saying as well is, you know, this, this book has had an impact in our lives in multiple ways. It's influenced our family. We both were raised in Christian homes. It is formative there. It's influenced and been informative in our business.

First statement of purpose is we strive to operate our business according to biblical principles. And we are blessed to be in a nation that has seen great success primarily as it has followed biblical principles. Our nation, our family, our business, none are perfect, never have been, never will be.

But to the degree that those principles have influenced each, it has served each well. And so, it is for that reason that we're inspired to say, we want everybody to consider this book. We want everybody to consider the principles of this book because If they follow the principles of this book, we believe it will serve them well. It will go well for them to the degree that they do.

And so that is the goal is we want to invite all people to invite as many as we can to consider this book. And one of the specific ways that I am focused on is trying to be an influence to leaders. Obviously, the more of an influencer we can have into the museum and it influences their life and their realm, the greater the impact is.

The museum's greatly enhanced when there's a guide that takes you through it and can teach you. And so we're looking at doing just some one day events where that we want to bring in leaders, whether it be business leaders or political leaders, church leaders, to encourage them and inspire them to live out their faith in their realm.

And so as they do that, they have a huge influence on those that they're leading. So that's a bit of a target. Obviously, lots of things, but that's a bit of the focus where I'm spending my time.

Jim: I'd love to see, actually have an entire day of Congress right there on location at the Museum of the Bible. And as Jackie mentioned, we could make them all go through that ride, that flyover at D. C., and to see all the scripture on every one of the buildings, so they could see it. That'd be fantastic.

We're talking with Steve and Jackie Green today. You may know their names. They're connected to Hobby Lobby and the Museum of the Bible, and we'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back. Today we talk with Steve and Jackie Green from Hobby Lobby and the Museum of the Bible. Jackie, this question's for you. What are the top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian leader?

Jackie Green: Well, I think two simple things are love God and love others. And they sound very simple, right? But we know in the day to day where the rubber meets the road, that can be hard. But I think it's just, if you can have that at the forefront of every day, just love God, which means a lot of things, you know. How can we love God? And there are a lot of ways to do that. And love others in a plethora of ways that we can love others that we happen to come across in our world.

Martha: Steve, anything to add to that?

Steve Green: Yeah, I would concur, say the same thing. You know, scripture says, you know, Christ said all the prophets are built on those two principles is to love God and love others.

And if we love God first, he's going to guide and direct us to love others and care for others and, and understand their lostness if they don't know him. And the desire to let them know about this salvation that he provides and offers. And when the family kind of came together and came up with their own mission, vision and values, that was at the core of what we wanted to do as a family, stated a little differently. But bottom line is to love God and love others. That's, that's what we try to do every day. we fail, but that's what we strive to do every day.

Jim: I think if our, just imagine how different our world would be if as Christ followers, all of us just loved God and loved people in everything that we do every day long. How, how different the world would be if we would just strive to do that each and every day.

All right, final question for the day. As we close out the podcast, Steve and Jackie Green, what leadership idea or thinking would you like to share as an investment in those listening to the podcast? Steve, you first.

Steve Green: So the thing that comes to my mind is a lesson that has been taught to the family often by my dad. There was multiple family meetings and the very first one was one where he didn't know if our company would survive, and obviously God did. He was crying out to God saying hey God I don't know how this is going to work. You have to intervene if it does. And one of the lessons that he took from that, and has really been a guiding principle for us, is that God owns it all. This is not our business. This is God's business. We're just stewards of it. And it's easier said than done. And there are times when God challenges us on that.

Oh, that's easy to say, but do you really believe it? And so the, the idea of not just saying it, but Understanding it, realizing it, and living it to where that you're just seeing yourself as being a steward of what God has entrusted to you. That's what we - is a core principle that we try to follow each and every day.

Martha: So what a great thing to just impart on other leaders that they can maybe just be reminded of that daily. So Jackie, what about you? What is one thing that you want to leave our listeners with today, especially as we just have this conversation around your leadership and where God has allowed you guys to live?

Jackie Green: Well, I think along with what Steve says, stewarding well and giving everything to God, but also allowing him to be your guide, you know, and walk in obedience. We've had to learn. Well, we didn't have to learn. We did learn. We chose to learn this valuable lesson. And that is to, to know that God calls us to a purpose, right?

And that we don't have to be necessarily equipped, but he equips us. He, he gives us what we need and the value that we need. And the ability when we walk in obedience to him to to do whatever he's calling us to do. And for us, it's been so much more than we ever dreamed it would be. And you know, of course we didn't do it alone. We had a great team, but to walk with a humble heart. And I think that it's so important to pray this prayer of, you know, asking God to just help us to have clean hands and a pure heart when we walk humbly before him.

And I think he can put us in leadership roles where, you know, you're going to have challenges, right? And we, Steve and I were talking earlier about this challenge that we saw, you know, the whole world saw with a couple of guys that were in a public space, right, with Will Smith and Chris Rock. You know, what happened just this week but the, the nugget that Denzel Smith shared with them was so pertinent and relevant. We were talking about it with our 15 year old and Steve, do you want to, do you have that quote? What did Denzel say?

Jim: Denzel Washington, just to make sure.

Steve Green: Yeah, Denzel Washington, and he said that he told Will Smith, at your highest moment be careful, that's when the devil comes for you. So, that was a lesson that Will Smith learned this week.

Jackie Green: And I, we just, we were talking about it with our teenagers. You know, it's just so important because when you're in a leadership role, you have such an opportunity to impact so many people and influence others. And to use that well and to use it wisely is so important and it's a gift and a blessing too.

Jim: So many more things we could talk about, but I know we're out of time and I just want to say thank you, Steve and Jackie Green, for making time today for just sharing from your hearts for all of the podcast listeners. Thank you so much for taking your time today.

Steve Green: You bet. Thank you for having us.

Jackie Green: Thank you.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest - that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media @ iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's @ iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.