Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy.

Jim: We've got an incredible conversation coming up today with Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin, the Senior VP of Ministry Impact with the American Bible Society.

Have you bought your . Bible website yet? You should. Go to get. bible. We'll be focusing on how Nicole leads and strives to create a culture of belonging within her division in the, within the American Bible Society. Nicole Martin, welcome to the Outcomes Conference podcast.

Nicole Martin: Thank you so much. It's so great to be with you guys.

Martha: Well, we are great to, grateful to have you here with us. And you know, I want to hear about your leadership role and your perspective on belonging and how God is using you in the culture there at American Bible Society. But before we do that, I want to hear how you keep your faith strong and Christ centered as a leader.

Nicole Martin: Yeah, thank you so much for asking. You know, I think it's sad that we don't ask this question enough as leaders. How do I keep my faith strong? But the answers are pretty, you know, simple when it when it comes to spiritual disciplines. So I started this journey of engaging in the Bible for myself about 20 years ago, and it was a dare. My pastor at the time said to me and several other young adults that he reads through the Bible every year.

And he said that that's what keeps him strong and grounded. And so as kind of a test or, you know kind of a competition, we decided we would do that as well. And here I am 20 years later, still reading through the Bible every year. And that keeps me grounded because when you read through the Bible, like, all at once through the year, you get the big story of what God is doing and what God has been doing.

And it keeps me grounded because it's more than just one scripture to keep me going for the day. It's the full story of God's work from creation to revelation to Christ coming again. That really keeps me grounded. And then I think the other thing that keeps me grounded in my faith, honestly, is raising kids.

 You know, there's, there's nothing like having to work with your children that helps you understand principles like grace, unconditional love, forgiveness, discipline -all of these, these biblical characteristics come alive when it comes to raising children who prayerfully are disciples of Christ, and I stay grounded when I know, you know, I've got to still love my babies and I've got to raise them and live in a way that's authentic for them and authentic to God.

Jim: It's just so true. You have to have children in order to really learn selflessness. They pull it out of you.

Nicole Martin: Yes, they do.

Jim: It's the diapers and the anyway at the middle of the night.

Martha: It's every stage.

Nicole Martin: It's every stage!

Jim: The theme of the outcomes conference this year is I belong. As a leader, what have been the keys to creating a culture within your division, ministry impact, at American Bible Society?

Nicole Martin: Oh my goodness, so many keys. Okay, so I have the honor of serving and stewarding five key areas of our Bible ministry. That is Bible translation, Bible distribution, trauma healing, the armed services ministry, and the digital Bible lab. That's all five of those.

I mean, and honestly, best work that I do. And I learned this from Tammy. Best work that I do is supporting these leaders. I get to wake up in the morning and think about how do I help these eagles fly? But, but one of the things that I had to learn very quickly is creating a sense of belonging on my ministry teams means finding the balance between honoring the distinctiveness of each of these areas of ministry, while also celebrating our unity, our common framework, our ways of being together.

So that, for me, creates a sense of belonging. I want our translation team to know their work is so unique and so different and so important, and at the same time, it is deeply connected to what we do in trauma healing and in the armed services and in digital Bible. So that's both the opportunity and the challenge on the missional part.

On the individual level, I think for me being a woman and a woman of color, I am more aware of how important it is to celebrate difference and honor unity. So I do want people to be seen and understood and valued for what they bring culturally, generationally you know, by way of their gender, while also knowing that they belong to something larger than themselves.

They're part of a really important tapestry of diversity that includes all levels of diversity, whether that's from, you know, those who take the commute, take the train in to those who walk to work, there's so much richness that's available, and I do my best to try and create that space with that balance.

Jim: And God did all that diversity on purpose. And even the way we worship. I mean, it's not so much how we look or how we think, it's also in how we experience God. That is also diverse and how we worship him on Sunday morning again diversity and and how we can learn from each other It's so spectacular.

Martha: Well, you know and and really we don't need to go off on this tangent, but it's really the whole idea behind different Bible translations as well. Yeah, because there's diversity and how I read versus how somebody else reads. You know, when you pick up a fiction writer, some click with you. You can just read them really easily because they speak like you think, or process, or whatever, and I think it's so much like that with the scripture, too, and that's another sense of diversity within the kingdom.

So what kinds of challenges do you run into when you're trying to create a culture of belonging at American Bible Society?

Yeah, well, I think, you know, the opportunity and the joy is also the challenge. Someone said to me when I first came into church ministry, they said people like people like themselves.

And prior to coming to American Bible Society, I did work on a church staff and it's true. The, the people in the prayer ministry, they just want to be around people who are prayer warriors and, you know, the women's ministry, they literally love being around women. So, It's hard sometimes to create, to build up the anticipation of what's in it for me.

Like, in order to create a sense of belonging and unity, I have to build the case for why it matters. I have to tell our translation team, it matters. When you get to see what the Digital Bible team is doing, you become better. I have to say, you know, to our Armed Services team, when you get to see what Trauma Healing is doing, you become better and the same is true on our levels of diversity.

If I only stay with people like myself, I miss out and I like what you said, Jim. It's not just missing out on my own personal development. I miss out on an aspect of who God is. If I stay with just my group and try to understand who God is, I cannot do that without you. And perhaps this is why Paul says in Ephesians, you know, it's like.

Together with all the saints that you may understand the depth and the width and the breadth of the love of God. I literally cannot do that by myself. So, the challenge is, how do we create such a compelling picture, a vision of what togetherness looks like that people who don't like people who are not like themselves are still willing to say, I'll give it a try.

Jim: That's a tweetable tweet! You're listening to the Outcomes Conference podcast as we talk with Dr. Nicole Martin, Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin. We'll be right back.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with, none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field.

Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book, iWork4Him, by going to iworkforhim. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself, you're working for the Lord.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. We've talked with Nicole Martin from the American Bible Society.

Nicole, your responsibilities are huge as you are over so many different divisions within the American Bible Society. What are the top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian or Christ following leader?

Nicole Martin: Great question. So I think one principle is to really listen to the experts. So obviously when i'm leading all of these areas, i'm not an expert in all of these areas. It does take a translator to understand Bible translation. It takes You know, a psychologist and at times Bible study leaders to help understand trauma healing and some of our digital Bible work.

So I try to really listen to and trust people who are experts. And it doesn't always mean that I go with everything that that my leaders are sharing. But I do trust them. And I think that's part of good leadership. Good leadership means you hire people to play the jobs and then you trust them to do their jobs.

And you trust that when they're giving advice or when they're, you know, providing guidance on where we should go, that that's actually where we should go. So I try to really, really listen to them well. And I try to really trust them even when that's more difficult. And I think the other thing I really try to do as a leader is not just listen to the experts and I don't want to sound cliche in saying this, but I mean it really try to listen for God.

I really, really try to listen for God because I don't believe that I can lead without God leading. So part of my, you know, reading through the Bible, my time with God, is simply asking God. Let me hear you. Open my ears so I can hear you. And then I can hear God speaking through my team, speaking through other perspectives, speaking through things that I read. So I think it's really wrapped up in listening to the leaders and to God.

Jim: What I wanna know, I just got a follow up. Sorry Martha. I saw her lips at the same time. The listening, listening to God. How, I mean, 'cause you're busy in your mind. I could tell because I think you and I have a lot in common.

You're busy in your mind. So how do you quiet your mind in order to hear the Lord? Because that filtering process, you know, I've been a believer for over 40 years, but I find myself having a hard time being quiet in order to hear what God's saying.

Nicole Martin: Yeah, so when you figure that out, then you can call and tell me and then, then we'll be like on the same page. I mean, you know, there's like all this stuff about mindfulness and I get that. It's like, yes, I do need to pray. But again, back to the listening. I also trust that God knows how he made me. God knows the kinds of things that I would face. So this morning, for example, I took the train in to work and I'm praying not just "God, quiet my mind so that I can hear you." "God, speak in a way that I'll hear you." And God knows me well enough that I need repetition.

I will know this is God when it's not just that one time when it was a fleeting thought five minutes ago, but when it's a reoccurrence, when there's a deep seated understanding, when there's, you know, a sense of repetition, I heard it there and then some random person said it and then I'm sitting in a meeting, oh my gosh, that just might be God.

So I think, you know, I don't like to sit in the place of dictating how people hear the voice of God. Because I think we're made in a way that each of us hear God uniquely, which goes back to the conversation of belonging.

Martha: Amen. It really does. Thanks for kind of, you know, talking into that because one of the things I remember as a young mom, hearing my pastor's wife talk about how she prayed. And it was very, she's like, I don't even usually talk about this because it's not the way, like, the textbooks, you know, say to do, you know, or whatever.

And she's like, this is how God wired me. And this is my conversation with God. I'm giving you a little peek into it. And it was so freeing because it wasn't, you know, it was like God made her different and it was okay to have conversation with God the way that it meant to us. So I appreciate you kind of talking about that.

So what about continuous learning for you? How do you fit that into your role as a leader to help you to continue to grow?

Jim: Yeah, and why do you even need it? You already got a doctorate. What else do you need?

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh, listen. The truth about, having a doctorate is just the recognition that you now know all that you do not know. I mean, I actually think I am better positioned to be an active learner because I have a degree, which proves that I recognize I don't know much at all. So I enter this space of leadership with a recognition that there's so much to learn now that works to my advantage because it does keep me always learning.

So, you know, podcasts are one way that I learned, listening to my leaders and to the experts. That's another way that I learned. Reading. I love reading. One of the ways, you know, going back to quieting my mind. I do read a lot because hearing perspectives and being able to imagine what the text is saying that helps me to quiet my mind.

But also I have to be careful so that it doesn't work to my disadvantage because I am prone to walk in a room and say, I don't know what I'm doing. Like I mean, the imposter syndrome comes up and the fear of failure comes up and, you know, the deficit, the awareness of my own deficits can, can be an unnecessary thing at times.

So I'm trying to balance this with recognizing I really know there's so much that I don't know, but also leaning on the fact that God has given me everything I need to lead in this moment and learning how to rest in that as well. It's a balance that I'm trying to achieve. I'm not very good at it.

Jim: Balance. There's that elusive word.

Martha: So I have a quick little question. Just a fun fact. How long have you been at American Bible Society?

Nicole Martin: I've been here for about five years.

Martha: Five years. So we heard you say at the beginning of the show that 20 years ago you started reading through the Bible. How awesome is it that God prepared you with that kind of learning heart before you ever probably thought about working for American Bible Society? What does that make you think of when you're like, God already showed me the value of the Bible before I started working for American Bible society?

Nicole Martin: You know that I think about that. Someone said to me when I first started working at American Bible Society, I had friends from college that were like, dude, that's your dream job. That organization is made for you because they knew me from teaching Bible studies in college to, you know, this reading through the Bible on a regular basis.

People knew me as someone who loved God's word. My challenge is I want every believer to be known by that. I want every believer to say, well, of course, American Bible Society is a place that you would be drawn to because you're drawn to the Bible. So my problem is, I don't see this as an anomaly or as a unique thing for me.

I see this as the part of Christian life for all believers. May we all have such a passion for God's word that we're drawn to anything that speaks of God's word. So, you know, I'm definitely a Bible nerd, but I want everyone to be a Bible nerd!

Jim: And that's good! And on that note, we're going to take a break here as we talk with Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin from the American Bible Society. We'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back. We're talking with Nicole Martin from American Bible Society. Here's my question. The American Bible Society is not a new organization and it's had to reinvent itself multiple times over. Well over a hundred years if I remember correctly. What is the next cutting edge project American Bible Society will undertake? Because the last time we interviewed somebody from American Bible Society it was .Bible. So what's next?

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh, so many things. So it's 206 years in May of this year. And you're right. There's constantly reinventing. But you know, part of that is just data driven. We're constantly aware of where Bible engagement is in America and where the Bible need is worldwide and constantly trying to adjust and bend so that our mission stays the same, even if we find different ways to do it.

So there are a couple of things that I'm really excited about that are happening right now. One is a project we're working on that helps you discover your spiritual DNA. So, you know, like you have DNA test things, you can find out where you're from. Your spiritual DNA will help you to find out where you are in your pathway of scripture engagement and help you to take whatever the next best step is to growing in Bible engagement. So it's going to be kind of a partnered effort with a lot of Bible engagement partners in the U. S., but I'm super excited about that and that's unfolding. And then another thing I'm excited about we have a program that we've been stewarding for about 10 years called the Trauma Healing. And it's really evolved into an institute.

We have 20, 000 plus facilitators, healing group facilitators all around the world. And right now, as we speak, we are revamping this program to become more digital, more responsive. And just more accessible so that anyone and everyone who's experiencing pain can encounter the healing power of God through the Bible.

So, there's so much to be said, I could talk about both of those all day, but those are two things on the horizon that I'm excited about.

Jim: Very cool.

Martha: That is exciting. So exciting. So, when you consider American Bible Society, what are you most enthusiastic about in terms of mission and impact?

Nicole Martin: Well, right now we're going through a process of looking back at our strategic plan and thinking about what is it really going to take to reach two crazy audacious prayer goals?

One of them is to reach 7. 8 billion people worldwide to ensure that 7. 8 billion people have access to God's word. That is an international prayer goal. And then we've got this goal to reach a hundred million Americans to see them engaged in God's word. And that's our domestic goal. I am really excited about these goals because only God can do them.

Only God can do that work. And you know, we don't have control over that. But what we steward right now in our strategic planning process has the ability to refine what it's going to take to get there. And this has not been easy work. It's been hard.

We've had to name some difficult truths like, Do we have the best programs? Do we have the best strategies? Are we tracking the right things? And this process of working with leaders to refine our strategy so we can reach those prayer goals has been so life giving. And it's been so wonderful to see people come together to see what it takes.

Jim: Well, talking about the coming together thing, because that's what my question was going to be. Collaboration. There are other Bible focused organizations in our country and around the globe. How are you guys involved in collaborating with them? Because some of them have different niches in the American Bible Society. How do you collaborate? Talk to me about that.

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh. Collaboration is like, it should be American Bible Collaboration Society. I mean, it really is what we do. So on the international scope, we have our strongest partnership is with United Bible Societies. They've been around for 75 years, 155 Bible societies all around the world. To my knowledge, someone said it's the second largest peacekeeping network, peacekeeping network aside from the UN. So we do much of our work through Bible societies all around the world. Domestically, we're convening all kinds of partners. We support YouVersion through our digital Bible library.

We're convening our Bible translation partners, Wycliffe and Biblica and Seed Company. We're bringing together networks, the Sending Project in Kansas City, and Movement Day and Movement. org. I could go on and on, but the best work that we do is when we can collaborate with like minded people who just want to see people engaging in God's Word.

Jim: That was a great answer.

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh, it's very exciting.

Martha: You know, it's too bad that you're not more excited about what's going on in American Bible Society.

Nicole Martin: People tell me that all the time. They're like, are you excited at all?

Martha: It is so great to see that God has you right where he has you on purpose for a purpose.

So what can you, Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin, share as a leadership idea or a way of thinking that you could use to invest in the listeners of this podcast?

Nicole Martin: Yeah. Well, I think the one thing that I am learning and that I would want to share is I think we as Christian leaders have an opportunity, especially in this time to embrace suffering, embrace the cross as a means of getting to a place of victory.

And what I mean is so much of traditional leadership has been like, go up and up and up. First you start here, and then you move up, and then you move up. You're, first you're a youth minister, and then maybe one day you'll be a senior pastor, and then maybe you'll have a megachurch. There's this constant striving toward up and up and up, but the way of the cross is deep, deep, deep.

It means you have to embrace the things that are not so lovely. Embrace the realities of your life and your journey that are not so pleasant. It requires a leaning into the cross that I think can be one of the greatest gift of leaders that we have today. We don't get to resurrection without getting through the cross.

And that shows up for me in the way that I lead. Some would call this redemptive leadership. It's a way of being that says I'm not afraid of the failures. I'm not afraid of messing up. I'm not afraid of my leaders getting everything wrong. There are times when we will get it wrong, but rather than push that under the carpet and strive for what is right, we can lean into that.

We can embrace that. We can learn from that in a way that helps all of us become better. And ultimately, I think what this means is clinging to the cross, clinging to what it means to take up our crosses, to follow Christ in the good times and in the bad times, but always recognize that we follow Christ through the cross to get to the point of victory.

Jim: A phenomenal summary. Fantastic. Nicole Martin from the American Bible Society. Thank you so much.

Nicole Martin: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books by going to iWork4Him. com/ bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.