intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy.

Scott Brown: I'm Scott Brown, and today we actually get to flip the script. Tammy Heim, President and CEO of Christian Leadership Alliance, and I get to interview Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Jim and Martha are the co founders of iWork4Him Network. In 2013, God called them to begin and co host the iWork4Him broadcast, where they have had the privilege of challenging thousands across the globe with the simple message that your workplace is your mission field. They've co authored a series of collaborative books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him.

They've interviewed thousands of leaders of the, for the, iWork4Him and iRetire4Him shows and Martha also helped begin the sheWorks4Him podcast. They're not only active members of Christian Leadership Alliance and host of this podcast. They're also the main stage experience guides at our annual outcomes conference.

Our theme this year is I belong, and it's our privilege to dive into that topic of belonging with Jim and Martha here today. So Jim and Martha, welcome to your own podcast.

Jim: Thanks, Scott.

Martha: Thank you.

Scott Brown: Yeah, it's nice to have you. But before we get started talking about your leadership role and the perspective on how God has used you to create a culture of belonging there at iWork4Him Ministries, Could you start us out by just sharing a little bit about how you keep your own faith strong and your leadership Christ centered?

Martha: Sure. So I think one of the things that we really have an amazing vantage point when we get to interview such amazing leaders that God is using in their daily lives and hearing how, how God inspires them. And that inspires me. And so for me, it's always listening to what God is doing in other people's lives and trying to apply that and, and see how I can implement something that I've learned from them in my own.

Personally, spending time in the morning and quiet God has me up early many days and I appreciate that in the, you know, in the real sense of that quietness that I get with him and writing my thoughts and listening to him through scripture and just. Learning from all the amazing people that we get to come in contact with.

Jim: Yeah, and for me, Scott, I actually had to schedule the first three hours of my day completely full so that I make sure that no matter when I sleep too, cause sometimes Martha and I work til midnight, not unlike some other famous, you know executive director of Christian Leadership Alliance. And then so when I wake up, I want to make sure I have my time for journaling.

I love to journal and I love to prayer journal where I'm just asking, Lord, what do you have for me today? And I've got an intercession list that I go through, and I make sure I'm always reading my Bible, and I'm usually reading some Old Testament, New Testament, because I try to read through the Bible every year.

But my goal is to also, at the same time, to keep my self Christ centered, is to make sure I'm pouring my life into other men. So I've got four or five men that I'm pouring my life into, because if I'm holding them accountable, it also holds me accountable. And then for Martha and I, we never start a day without praying together and we never end the day without praying together.

And if we happen to have an argument that I started during the day, We stop, I say, I'm sorry, I love you, please forgive me, and then we pray. And then we start over again. So, those things help us stay Christ centered and our faith strong. Because as many people listening to this show know that Martha and I spend 24/ 7, 365 with each other.

And about 35, 000 miles a year of that in a metal tube with four wheels that we call a minivan. So we really get a lot of alone time. So it's important to keep our faith strong and Christ centered.

Scott Brown: Yeah, that's great insight, though. You know, a lot of our listeners would also be those who get the opportunity to work together with a spouse and whether it's as a volunteer or full time, so it's helpful to have that insight on on how you do that together.

I did want to ask about how you all try to create a culture of belonging at iWork4Him ministries and both, you know, among your team, but with others that you engage with.

Jim: So, for our team, so we've got a team with somebody in Mexico City, somebody in Minneapolis, and somebody in Clearwater, Florida, and we're in South Florida.

And so it's really important when we have our weekly meetings with our people, it's not just about business. It's we first find out how they're doing, and we make sure that we ask them how we can pray with them, and then we pray with them, and then we get our details done. But we want to make sure that they know they're a priority, they're a priority once a week, where they have dedicated time on our schedules.

That's how we create a belonging on our team. But really what iWork4Him's about is creating belong, belonging inside what we call the faith and work movement across the country. One of the things that we've tried to do is share our platform, and we have shared it with thousands and thousands of people over thousands of podcasts to make sure that everybody knows they've got a place here, and we're an equal opportunity promoter of whatever ministry or whatever they're doing or whatever God is doing in their lives, and we make sure they know that they don't have to be the CEO of a billion dollar corporation, and they can be a local janitor who's making an impact with their faith, and we want to share their story, and we've covered from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Is there anything that you would add to that?

Martha: No, I think that, I mean, there's always a little bit, yeah.

Scott Brown: One, one thing that I hear there, though, is a willingness to, to let go of kind of ownership. You're, you're giving others who are in this movement opportunity to share what they're doing and what God's put on their heart.

And it's really a kind of a give it away kind of mindset that's required to create that kind of culture.

Martha: Yes, God has told us from the very beginning to hold loosely to what we do and to lift up what he is doing through others. So it's not about us. We might be the mouthpiece. We might be the one giving words to it, but it's not our you know, we have our own story, but every day we're lifting up God's story.

Jim: And it's important to understand, Scott, we don't own it. We're, you know, we're stewards. We're all stewards. You know, people always say, well, give God back 10% of what of what you have. No! You're giving God back 10% of what he's already given you 100% of, just to test you, to make sure that your faith is strong enough to trust him with 90%.

It just, it's important to understand, we don't own it. It's not ours. In fact, We did iWork4Him and started as a for profit business and the Lord said No, non profit, buddy. You got to give it all up. It's not yours. I said, okay That that was a little bit of an exercise in my grip.

Martha: As an entrepreneur, saying Okay, Lord , it's yours.

Jim: It's all yours.

Scott Brown: Right? Well just quickly How exciting has it been for you all to see what God has done with that after you've given it up? I mean just share a little bit You know, how have you seen God take what you've given through the years? Well, quickly.

Martha: Yes, I know really quickly. You're doing a good job of leading this conversation. It's just amazing to see how God loves to show off and you know Show up and show off if we are looking for it and seeing how he It does immeasurably more than we could ever ask or imagine.

And that's not always in the area of finances. It is in conversations that we could have never imagined if we, if it had gone our way or with just the way that we orchestrated something in our mind that we thought it was going to be. And then God walked it out differently. You know, it's just been amazing to see that process and, and walking in that faith every single day.

Scott Brown: Well, thank you. And, and, you know, we're going to take a short break from our conversation with Jim and Martha Brangenberg with iWork4Him Ministries. We're going to be right back.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are.

The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with, none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book. iWork4Him by going to iWork4Him. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself.

You're working for the Lord!

Tammy Heim: Welcome back to our conversation with Jim and Martha. I'm Tammy Heim, president and CEO of Christian Leadership Alliance. And I have to tell you, I love that we're flipping the seat with the two of you today. So I want to keep the conversation going. And I felt like we learned so much even in that first segment, but I want to go a little bit deeper and I want to just understand what are the core principles, are the values that are really guiding you as a Christian leader in your ministry and the work that you do every day?

Jim: She, Martha pointed at me, you can't see it on video, but Martha pointed at me. So, for me, it's two things that really drive it. Generosity is one of my core principles that we have put onto iWork4Him. It's always about everybody else, and it's about sharing our platform with everybody else. Without generosity - knowing that when you experience true, true generosity, it's the most freeing thing we can experience as a human being after salvation.

So generosity is a core principle for me, and boldness. Sometimes we just have to be bold. And we get to interview people from all ranks and files across the country, and sometimes you gotta ask tough questions. Because sometimes people have a hard time sharing what God's really doing in their lives. And the boldness allows us to really capture what God is really doing.

And that's not one of our corporate core principles. That's one of my core principles. As a corporation, Martha, we've got the two major core principles that we travel with all day long.

Martha: Yeah. So collaboration is one of them. And I think you kind of heard that in the first segment where we talked about, you know, it's not ours, you know, and we're trying to just bring people together and have that conversation about what God's doing all over the world and God gives us that opportunity to help us to collaborate In so many different ways and so that is really important to us.

Jim: And strategic connection One of the things that iWork4Him has become Famous for around the country is making connections when we meet with somebody whether we're interviewing them or meeting them at a conference. I'm almost always prompted, oh, you need to connect this person to this person that you already know.

And that is something that is such a gift to us within the kingdom to be able to connect people and then we walk away and then to find out years later what God has done with that. That is really fun.

Tammy Heim: I know. That makes it worth it all. I have to tell you, in the years that I've known both of you, I have observed all of that, everything that you just said, and I've received it.

And I know that it's been a deep blessing in my life as a ministry leader and with the work that we're accomplishing through Christian Leadership Alliance. So thank you for your faithfulness to stay true to the things that you know, that matter most in your life. Now, in the first segment, you talked a little bit about listening.

And I think Martha you specifically talked about the fact that you hear so many great examples. So clearly, listening is important because you to do an awful lot of listening through your podcast. How does that really end up impacting you as a leader? I mean, what are some of the fruit from that that you can point to and say: now, this has really shaped our journey and how we lead?

Martha: Oh, man. So, I think the biggest thing is that when we get to have that front row seat, when we are listening to somebody's story and we see how God impacted each individual being able to apply that in our own lives, our desire is to be leaders worth following, not in the, not that we're looking for a following, but if we are leading someone in our team or in a conversation that it is going to lead them to Christ. And so ultimately you know, desiring for that listening to have that kind of an outcome. And so it is our pleasure to hear the stories of what God is doing in people's lives.

Tammy Heim: I know. Again, to watch you and observe that how you can just tap into and read people so well and get to those all important conversations about Jesus and salvation and really what all of us have been called to do, that choose to follow Jesus. Now, I know that you are consumers of lots of different kind of content and that you are committed lifelong learners.

I mean, I've always been impressed just how open you are to new ideas. Are there some things, though, that you do practically and intentionally just to stay on the path of being a lifelong learner?

Martha: Well, currently something that we are doing together is we're actually going through couples strength finders training. So it has been a very eye opening to say the least.

Jim: Why does she look at me?

Martha: I'm just looking for his response. But what's really cool is as we've been going through this process, so we both went through some strength finders coaching on our own, and then we found out we could do it together and learn how to compliment each other in our strengths.

And to understand the areas that we're not strong in and that, you know, we have many things that complement and then we have like polar opposites of some things. But what we've seen is that in hindsight, how God has used that to form, iWork4Him. Both of us, very high strength and responsibility. Well when we hear somebody's story or we hear about an organization that's doing something amazing, God naturally created us with that responsibility to share it with others, hence iWork4Him.

I mean, we didn't know that nine years ago. We see that now as we've learned about it. So that's something that, and we've intentionally gone through other leadership trainings over the year together so that we can hold each other accountable and learn how those things in our marriage and in our organization and in our day to day, they can be played out.

Jim: And Martha learns better because she's a better listener. And so for me, I've got three mentors, that's one of the things I'd learn from. I have three guys that are older than me that are pouring their lives into me because one's not enough, because I wear them out. And I read a ton, and I have to, I have to ration my reading because I love to read fiction and nonfiction. And so we read a lot for the show. I probably read 30 or as many as 70 books in a year for the show. And I've cut that back to 30 or so books. But then I try to read, I may read 40 fiction books during the year. Christian fiction, so they always have a kind of a theme to them.

But I just love to learn, and of course, I love going to church. What's really cool is this incredible lady from the Christian Leadership Alliance said you should check out our church during COVID. And so we've been going to church in Nashville, but we live in Fort Myers for two years! And it's been great learning under a pastor who gets iWork4Him.

Tammy Heim: Absolutely. Well, I, I'm excited about this journey that you talked about, about understanding each other's strengths. You know, I've been a student of that for many years, and it's exciting to see that there's new things God can reveal about our partners and our spouses as time goes on, that just makes us smarter in how we work and more knowledgeable and actually appreciate the things in our partners that maybe at some point might have been annoying.

But once we understand that it's God's gift to us, we respond to it a little bit differently. Now, from my publishing experience, you two did the most epic thing that I've ever seen. Last year, you published three books and released them all at once in the same year. So, you wrote and published, iWork4Him, iRetire4Him, and sheWorks4Him.

And again what an amazing gift to those that are really trying to integrate faith into all areas of our lives. So, can we just take a minute and give us like a short synopsis on each of them and then what would you say is just the overarching theme that you're really trying to bring out in each one of them?

Jim: I think that'd be great, but I think what we should do is go to break and come back and answer that question.

Tammy Heim: Well, you know what, Jim, we can do just that.

Break: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town. Well, lean in, because here's a message from that kind of person.

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Go ahead, check out awakeandpodcastnetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend!

Tammy Heim: Welcome back. Today we're flipping the seats with Jim and Martha Brangenberg who are traditionally the hosts of this podcast and we're going to pick up on the conversation we had right before the break. So again, Authors of three books released all in the same year.

iWork4Him. iRetire4Him and sheWorks4Him. Give us the story on each one of them and just help us understand the reasoning between all three at once and just the underlying theme that you hoped would sink into the hearts of many.

Jim: All right. I'll start with this one because this was my baby.

And what's really important to the story is that. You know, when we went on the air in 2013, everybody said you guys should write a book because everybody that's on the radio has a book. That's how they get famous. We're like, well, first of all, we'll write a book when God tells us to write a book. We're not going to write a book to be famous.

That's not important. In January of 2020, two and a half months before COVID got released on our great country. I said, Martha, it's, it's time to write a book, but it's not one. It's three.

Martha: So basically, Martha, we're having triplets.

Jim: And then of course, people said, that's stupid, that's crazy, you can't do it. But we did it anyway.

Martha: Tammy was right there like, what are you talking about?

Jim: iWork4Him, written for the everyday believer, really to change the way they're thinking about the connection of their faith and their work. And this book, not written for the, just for executives, this is written for everybody who's going to work, who calls themselves a Jesus follower.

And it's my story shared in there, Martha's story shared in there. And really just the practical, the tactical, the factual, and the biblical ways of living out your faith and your work. And then 22 chapters after what we wrote from other ministries that specifically want to pour their lives into our readers.

So this is a collaborative effort between all of our books. We had 52 contributors to all of our books because we wanted to not only give people a challenge, but then connect them to ministries that could take that challenge to a whole nother level.

Martha: And then sheWorks4Him, which is Embrace Your Calling as a Christian woman at work, has 19 women sharing their story of some way that God has helped them to embrace their work as a Christian working woman, where there is just a real lack of resources in that area. And what's amazing, it's 19 different stories that God wrote in each individual's lives.

Jim: And then finally, iRetire4Him. Here's where this came from. Martha's dad, when we went on the air in 2013, he goes, Jim and Martha, I love iWork4Him, and I used to iWork4Him, but I don't iWork4Him anymore. iRetire4Him. Mic drop. Wow. That's what it started, and we kept playing with that idea, and we did some shows with retirees, and we called them iRetire4Him shows.

This is a handbook, again, practical, tactical, factual, and biblical, for those who are considering retirement, quote unquote. Or are already in retirement to know here's what God's got for you and in store for you in your retirement years because retirement's not biblical unless you're a Levitical priest.

That's the only time it's mentioned in scriptures and there isn't, I've never met one of those yet. But God's got a purpose for you in your next stage and you are desperately needed in the next generation. So this book is all about how do you pour your life into that of someone in the next generation.

And again, Eight chapters at the end from people saying we would love to use you in our organization Or I can help take you to the next level. And and we've got podcasts by all the same three names that we produce every week.

Martha: And i'm not sure if you mentioned but my dad actually wrote His stories at the end of iWork4Him and iRetire4Him at the end of each chapter As we walk through his journey of working for the Lord and retiring for the Lord and in his life, I mean, just the way God played it out, because fortunately that is the life that my dad led has led and he is a great storyteller. So he gives us a practical application that just is fun to read as well.

Tammy Heim: Well, what an incredible gift to Christians in the workplace that are really longing and seeking how to integrate and how to bring God into it and how to give what they're doing back to God and be faithful in their assignments. Thank you for that gift to all of us.

Scott Brown: And I'm going to ask the simple question because it sounds like there's something in there for everyone, really, no matter where you are in your stage of career or even those who've retired. How do you get it? How do you get the books?

Jim: What's the easy way? iWork4Him. com / bookstore . I work the number 4 him. com / bookstore.

Martha: Bookstore. There you go. Great. And I just want to say, you know, because we're, we're, you know, the Christian Leadership Alliances is for Nonprofits, we've had this conversation. This is not just a secular conversation.

This is within the four walls of every organization. Whether they're serving the Lord in all that they do, or serving the orphans, or serving the hamburgers, we all have a call to work for Him. And so that applies, and sometimes it's harder to do within the four walls of an organization that has a culture that we're focused on Jesus every day.

Sometimes we forget what that really means in our own work as an accountant or a HR manager.

Tammy Heim: Well, and I believe when you think about it, God designed work before the fall. Amen. So it's always been God's intention. And so for all of us, no matter where he's assigned us, to be able to do that unto him and for his glory.

Jim: Something we talk about all the time, Tammy, is the word for work in the Old Testament is also the same as the word for worship and service. And so every time God gave us work as a way to worship him.

Tammy Heim: Amen.

Scott Brown: Amen. Well, that thought really ties into something as we're coming to the close of today's podcast. Something we always like to do is to give an opportunity to share a leadership idea or thinking or something that God's put on your heart.

And I'd just like to invite you both to maybe build on that with something that you would encourage other leaders who are listening to, to us today.

Martha: You know, I think that one of the things that's actually very surprising is when you read the scripture through the lens of your work and leadership, our eyes are open very differently to what God has been saying to us all these years.

So right now I'm using actually the Faith and Work Bible and reading through that to get that lens, that perspective, that reminder of what God has to say to us that's so applicable. Sometimes we look at it again, that segmented conversation, you know, where we think that the Bible applies in our, only in our home. Not that we mean to do that, but when you look at it specifically through that lens of work it really can impact the leadership that you are allowing God to use you for.

Jim: And for me, Scott, it's this one sentence. This should shape every believer. As a Jesus follower, everything about you should be changing, and everyone around you should be benefiting from your faith, whether they believe in Jesus or not.

Scott Brown: Salt and light. Yeah, beautiful. Well, thank you both. I just echo what Tammy said.

We so appreciate the partnership that we at Christian Leadership Alliance have had with you all through the years. We appreciate the work of iWork4Him and the mission that God has put on your heart that's impacting leaders across the nation and around the world So thanks for this opportunity to talk with you today.

Jim: Thanks for having us.

Martha: It's been our pleasure Thank you.

Tammy Heim: And we kind of like these seats. So thanks for sharing them with us. Well, we've enjoyed the seats, but we're going to give them back to you and we'll let you close.

Jim: Yeah, thanks to Tammy Heim and Scott Brown for interviewing us today. It was a lot of fun.

Break: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field.

To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number for him. com.