Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet, online at SaferNet. com.

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: Imagine yourself in a huge field. On the edge of the field are beautiful trees and luscious fruit. Behind the trees are mountains in the background. And behind you there's a beach full of sand and the ocean roaring. In front of you is a trunk full of gold and a clock ticking.

But you don't know how much time is left. This is, in fact, a picture of retirement. You have absolutely no constraints on how you have to spend your time. Some of you may have to work in retirement just to pay a few bills, but you can do a different kind of work than what you spent the last 40 years doing.

You've got a field you can build upon, utilizing the trees in the forest. You've got incredible views that you can soak in and share with those around you. You've got the finances you need to spend a lifetime doing what you're called to do. The only caveat to all of this is that you'll be working. The biggest issue is that people see work as a negative, unnecessary evil.

We need to recognize that God gives us work as a gift. Retirement is an American thing, a Western thing. You've got maybe 30 years in front of you to do amazing things, utilizing all that you've learned up to this point in your life. What is it you're going to do? Bruce Bruinsma joins us today. I'm gonna say that again just because everybody needs to understand his name: Bruce Bruinsma joins us today from the Retirement Reformation, online at Retirement Reformation dot o r g and we're gonna explore how to find purpose in retirement Bruce, welcome back.

Bruce Bruinsma: Jim and Martha, it's good to be with you and in the You know, the message and the heart that God has given you to speak into the workplace and how it's become a place of ministry. And now, with the Retirement Reformation, we're talking about a new workplace, a place after the career. And so the principles and the goals that we all have are, are really, are really the same.

And I think God's goals are really the same. Just how do we carry it out in the complexities of these different times of life, given the fact, and I think as you mentioned, that , in fact, the retirement piece may be as long as 30 years? My goodness, your career may be 30 years and you got retirement just as long.

So how are we going to adjust all that and how do we, how do we react to it with God's heart and God's spirit?

Martha: And that's the conversation we're going to have today, Bruce, but let's start with your story. You are 82, and you just, according to the culture, according to finances, retired so that you can work full time with the Retirement Reformation.

Tell us a little bit of your perspective on that story.

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, you know, it's, it's over the years, some people have accused me of being a serial entrepreneur, and I suppose at some level I'm guilty of that. But thirty some years ago, God directed me to start an organization called Envoy Financial, and so we worked on the financial side of retirement with those who are in ministry.

I did that for almost 30 years, and then a number of years ago, in my mid 70s, God started working on me and saying, you know, there's more to retirement than money. And so, as He prompted me to deal with that in my own life, and in the lives of the thousands of people that we had touched financially, a whole new area of need, vision, and ministry opportunity has presented itself.

And so, the Retirement Reformation, matter of fact, we have something called the Retirement Reformation Manifesto. And I could take the next half hour and read it to you, and then

Jim: No, you can't.

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, I know. Jim would not let me.

Martha: We'll put a link in the show notes.

Bruce Bruinsma: That's all right. What I am going to do is I'm going to read the introduction to it, because I think it really captures the essence of this.

The Retirement Reformation is committed to encouraging a movement where every Christ follower is confident in God's plan for a lifetime of faithful service and committed to helping the body of Christ reform its understanding of retirement. Then bearing fruit without measure, we assert the biblical truth that Jesus followers are called to bear fruit in every season of life and affirm that commitment with the following 10 principles... and you can follow that either at our website or you'll put it in the notes there, but it's, but, you know, the need for Reformation if we go back to the Reformation, to the Protestant Reformation and you think about it, what really happened?

Well, Martin Luther and a few others, in their understanding of God's Gospel, change the thinking of millions of people and it changes the direction of Europe and the world for, you know, hundreds of years to come. We need that same kind of reformation amongst the seniors and those that are anticipating it and those who have seniors for parents, which would be most of us.

Jim: Yeah, Bruce, we spent the last 20 years on a science experiment, a cultural science experiment in Florida. Seeing that the typical American dream of retirement is really a lie, that you can't just move to the south where it's gorgeous every day and you'll walk the beaches and get seashells and be fulfilled in life.

Is it possible? Is it possible to find purpose, fulfillment and flourishing in retirement? Yes or no?

Bruce Bruinsma: Yes. All right. So what does that look like? Well, first of all, you got to change your thinking about what it is. And so the, the beautiful picture that you painted, frankly, at the opening of this segment, and just the way you describe it now, what that means is that, is that we are attempting to take leisure and give it meaning and purpose. Now, leisure has value. We need to take a vacation, we need to take a cruise, we need to, you know, go take a road trip, or we need to, you know, get away and just get refreshed, but not for 30 years. And what happens, as we talked about in the last segment, is that after a period of time, for some people it happens right away, some people, you know, there's a period of time, but whatever that may be at some point, there is that realization that there is that hole in our soul and that we're, we're trying to give leisure meaning and purpose and leisure does not have meaning and purpose. It has value, but not meaning and purpose.

And so we have this yearning for something more to find that meaning and purpose. God, knowing that as He created us, He started us on a track with meaning and purpose that started, you know, before time began, the way I read my Bible. Then we're born and we've got our DNA and then we've got our experiences and how He shaped us.

Now we're prepared for some additional meaning and purpose. And when we can find it and begin to step into it, oh, it's like taking this huge weight off our life. And we can, in fact, enjoy retirement.

Martha: So, Bruce, are you flourishing?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well when I forget to turn the light out in my closet, my wife would tell me no.

But when I look at the relationships that God has blessed me with, the expanding number of relationships through the Retirement Reformation and iWork4Him and in other ministries that are good, it is the greatest time of flourishing for me in my whole career, and I've done some really interesting things that have been very rewarding.

But this time is so special, and it would be my prayer that your listeners and all those that they would impact would be able to experience that same feeling of, you call it flourishing, but a fulfillment of, you know that you know that you know that you're doing the right thing.

Martha: Mm hmm. When God gives you a mantle like that to carry and you're so passionate about it, that's where you know that you're living in your purpose and you know that's what I love about you, Bruce, is that you have experienced this yourself. You're not just being a spokesperson for something. God has worked in your own life, transitioned and transformed and reformed your thinking about retirement, especially being in the field where you're helping people financially prepare for retirement to have that mind shift and then to share it with others. I just, I love that, you know, that is where God has you on purpose right now.

Jim: Bruce, before we head off into our conversation about the three stages of retirement, in your perspective, are most retirees flourishing right now? Or are most of them a little frustrated?

Bruce Bruinsma: I think most of them are not flourishing. They may not be frustrated because they're totally enjoying the Leisure fruits of their, of their labor, and there's nothing wrong with that, except it will not last. And so when I look at, you know, I, I have on a sign behind my left shoulder there, the 40 million, and it actually, it's a bum number. There's 48 million Christ followers who I think are, have the opportunity to flourish, but are not.

Jim: Yeah, I gotta tell you the proof to me that most retirees are not flourishing is living in a homeowners association in florida. There's a whole nother story about that but there's another story for another day. You know, there are so many stories that we have heard about retirees learning truly how to flourish.

We decided to write a book, and the book is called iRetire4Him, which we wrote alongside Martha's dad, who's now with Jesus, but he told all of his stories in there of living out his faith in retirement. And we want to invite you to download the first chapter for free from our website. Go to iWorkForHim. com forward slash bookstore. And you can download that first chapter for free.

And then for any size donation, we'll send you a copy of iRetire4Him or any of our other books. Just place your selection in the notes on the donation page, what you would like us to send you but we'd love to be able to put those resources in your hand. You'll see Bruce has got six books he's written about retirement and another one coming out. We've just got one, so we encourage you to check out both of our bookstores. Right now, iWorkForHim. com forward slash bookstore.

Bruce Bruinsma: Let me just throw in a plug for iRetire4Him book. I would urge your readers, send in a donation and get the book, because the stories in there will warm your heart.

The stories from your dad are just beautiful. And so, If I'm feeling down a little bit, I do one of two things, either find a good football game or I pick up your book and I just read some of those stories and I, and it just lifts my heart. So let me just encourage your, your listeners to do that.

Martha: That's awesome, Bruce. Thank you so much for that.

So, you guys were alluding to this idea that there are three different stages in retirement. And so, I think that it's really important that we just, you know, jump into what those are. So, what are the three stages of retirement, Bruce?

Bruce Bruinsma: The stages of retirement, and just to contextualize that, just think about it for a moment. Was your life different in your 20s from your 30s? Everybody goes, well, yeah. Was it difference from your thirties to your forties? Well, yeah. Was it difference from your forties to? Well, yeah. So why in the world would we think that the 30 years of retirement wouldn't have stages also? So there's just a certain, you know, aha moment of, yeah, that makes sense.

So what are they? Well, first of all, we notice that in the, oh, let's say 65 to 77, 78, we call that the active stage. And this is where, in fact, you may be slowed down a little, but you know, you can, you can go, you can go kayaking, you can climb the mountain, you can lead a group, you can, you know, there's not very many things that in that period of time that you couldn't do in the years before retirement, that you can't do now. And so it's a very active period of time.

Then about 78, 79, somewhere in that area, there's a transition, a liminal period that is going to take place. And that liminal period, which we call mentoring, it's the time where, you know, all of your experiences, all the, the DNA that you have, all the wisdom and the knowledge that you're going to get has been pretty much accumulated, and you have the opportunity to, to come alongside others.

Younger people, middle aged people, young marrieds, maybe even contemporaries, even seniors, where you can come alongside and, and be that person that listens and then shares your own life experience. And let me just make one comment about that. So often people are afraid of mentoring and say, well, I'm not qualified to do that because what's going on in their head is I don't know if I've got all the answers. I

guarantee you, you don't. But that's not what they're looking for. They're looking for authenticity and transparency. And so, the major teaching moment in a mentoring relationship may be one of your biggest failures. And to say, here's where I really screwed up, and here's why, and here's what I learned. Don't do that. So mentoring is that second stage.

Third stage starts at around 88 roughly and goes to 104. And in that period of time, we've given that the name of reflective. The opportunity to, to aggregate all of the experiences and the thought that you have and to be able to share God's principles of life with others.

Just as in a couple of examples, Billy Graham wrote a couple of his best books after he was 90. Jimmy Carter, regardless of what you think of his politics, has written a couple of really good books on faith after 90. I, I just was introduced and I'll have, I have a meeting with him next week, a gentleman who's 91 who just wrote his first book about relationships. And so the opportunity there to be able to do some things, and even though your health may be, you know, not good, there may be all kinds of issues that are in your life, but you still have the opportunity to be, to share what God has given you with others.

So those are the three. So active, mentoring, and reflective.

Martha: You know, I love that you said, you know, obviously, in life, we had different stages up until retirement, so why wouldn't we have them there as well? And acknowledging that, I think, is a really good thing because you could get frustrated otherwise if you're like, Why can't I always be this way as we continue to age?

And I love this reflective stage because, you know, that's the time where the life lessons can really help teach other people and be contemplative and see what God has done in all of that life gone before. So let's think about that first stage, the active stage. Is it too late if someone is already retired to start to plan for stage one?

Bruce Bruinsma: Absolutely not, because there's, you know, it lasts 10 to 12, 13 years. So you may be 3, 4, 5 years into it. You've got five more years to go. And so to, to be able to say, okay, what, what is God calling me to do now with the energy that I have, with the resources that I have, with the experience that I have at this point?

And so that, that opportunity, it's also the time then to, to realize that there will be another transition coming. Right. And so when you know that something's coming, you can plan for it. And so, and I think

Jim: So key about that active phase, Bruce, to interrupt you, is that by the time you get to year three or four, you figure it out. This was a lie. This was a lie. The American Dream of Retirement is a nightmare. Because I am so sick and tired of sitting on my front porch, looking out at the birds, or looking out at the mountains, or walking the beach to get seashells, or whatever you're doing, you're like, I want purpose. And Martha says this so well - your calling did not retire when you did. Oh, well, sometimes takes us some days to to realize that, doesn't it? Really does.

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, you know, it's fascinating because sometimes, particularly in that active period, it's, you know, we kind of think, well, it should be a continuation of something. It may not be at all. It may look totally different. However, when you look back, you'll find that all of your experiences, in some way, speak into that new position.

Can I just tell you one story? A friend of mine came to see me a number of years ago, and he says, I'm retiring and I have no idea. I know I'm supposed to do something, but I have no idea what. And I said, so what are you passionate about? He says, well, kids. I said, okay, why don't you talk to your youth pastor, see if you can connect with kids?

And he did, and they did. And in that process, he learned that he really had a heart for disabled children. And that was really, you know, really got him. And their youth group took a trip to Africa. When he got to, got to Africa, he realized, there were a bunch of kids there, and number two, that there were many of them that were disabled.

So, he was then introduced to a, a budding hospital that took care of disabled kids, particularly ones that had bone issues and structural issues. Long story short, he is now the head of that hospital. And this was, so this has taken a process of seven years. If seven years ago I had told him that he was going to be the head of a hospital for disabled children in Africa, he would have run the other way just as fast as he possibly could because there's no way. He was not a doctor. He was not, you know, there was nothing that, that on the surface would combine those, yet who he was and who God had prompted him to be, he is the perfect person for, for that.

Martha: What a great example, Bruce. And you know, this is just one of many examples of things you've seen in people's lives that have been changed.

And we can't possibly cover all of the information about retirement in this week or last week's podcast that we did with you. But there is a whole podcast dedicated to this topic and that is iRetire4Him. Jim and Bruce are the co hosts together on that. You can find it on your favorite platform. And i'm going to put the link in the show notes for you to make it easy for you to find. But we would love for you to subscribe if this is a conversation that you want to hear more about. And I what I love the best is that you there's never a point where you say it's too late to make a difference, and so that is the voice that I want you to hear, that encouragement can be found in your retirement and the iRetire4Him podcast helps make that possible.

Jim: And inside the middle of every iRetire4Him podcast we interview somebody living out their faith in retirement All right, Bruce, so moving on to the last last set of questions before the the show is done today, how can I help my local church community celebrate retirees?

Bruce Bruinsma: That's an important need. And the reason for the need is some of it is what we talked about before about the sense of setting aside and the sense of separation by age and, and yet there is so much value in that age group.

So how can a church do that? So first of all, we do a weekend retreat called the Oxygen for Life. And I just love that name because oxygen is what God created that gives us life. And if we don't have oxygen, we die. So getting more of it is really a good thing. And so that's a Friday, typically a Friday night, Saturday event.

And you can go to our website and get all the information about that. And it's an opportunity to bring together the seniors in your church for affirmation. Also to reach out evangelically to, evangelistically to your community and invite seniors to come in and enjoy and begin to experience what God has for them with you.

On Saturday morning, then we do a four hour, dig deeper breathe deeply event. Where we talk about five or six really key topics and allow you to explore what is next for you. Then we have a next, then another thing you can do at your church is to have a workshop called recreating retirement. So it's 10 sessions and it, it walks in a group setting, but each person individually through the process of discovering and answering the question of what's next.

It's a really powerful experience. And so those are two things that you can, that you can bring to your church. And then there's much more. Go to retirementreformation. org.

Jim: You know, one of the things that I was also thinking, Bruce, if there's local church leaders listening to today's show, or if you're in leadership in your church and you have influence over the people that actually make the decisions in the church is to somehow find a way to encourage the leadership in your church to intermix the generations. Because the greatest way you can help your church community thrive is to get the older people connected with the younger people. Because in today's world, the younger people don't have access to sometimes to parents or to grandparents at all.

And they need the wisdom of generations poured into them. A lot of them will tell you that's what I want, but the church doesn't help and facilitate that. And so the local church, please celebrate retirees. They have a whole lot of wisdom.

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, we have an intergenerational, it's going to be called age to age, intergenerational prayer. Where we introduce the process and the support systems to be able to have older people praying for younger people and then teaching the younger people how to pray. So we're really excited about that. And it allows the older people to come together in community and the younger people to be able to come together in community. And I think that's what the church is really all about, and it's so badly needed.

Martha: You know, Bruce, one of the things that you guys really encouraged, that doesn't take a program, it doesn't take somebody organizing it, but personally taking on the responsibility of some mentoring. And you have kind of coined this phrase about wraparound grandparenting.

Speak to that just quickly, because I think anybody listening could adopt this concept in their own life without anybody even knowing that they're doing it. So just real briefly, just explain that.

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, well, for example, if we think about in our communities, our church, how many single moms do we have? How many single dads do we have? How many people are adopting or how many people are mentoring or are thinking about mentoring? Each one of those has huge needs for support. So as seniors, if two or three seniors could come together, and let's focus for a moment on the fostering area where the need is so great, is to be able to come alongside those foster parents and if you had three couples that said, we will support you, it may be an hour a week.

It may be bringing a meal, it may be taking kids to a ballgame. It may be taking them over for a Saturday so that, you know, they get a chance to breathe for a minute. And so wraparound grandparenting, and we've given that initiative a name, it's called the Legacy of Love. And so the opportunity for those who are wraparound grandparents to come together in community, to focus on providing support for a fostering family as the church, we can bless our community, we can bless those people, and we can make a difference in the lives of the young people that are in those foster families and the 113, 000 more that need one.

Martha: Mm hmm. Such a great idea.

Jim: It is. Bruce Bruinsma with Retirement Reformation. Thanks so much for being here on iWork4Him today, sharing from your perspective on retirement and how we need to be reformed here in America. People check him out online Retirement Reformation dot o R G Bruce. Thank you.

Bruce Bruinsma: Thank you. And iWork4Him is doing such important work and so glad to be partnering with you.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world.

For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him for him by going to iWork for him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork for Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brandenburg. Please visit iWork for him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork for him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

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