Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet Online at Safernet.com.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: We are your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: We got a new youth pastor when I was 15 or 16 years old. The youth pastor didn't take the time to really get to know me. He just judged me and said he didn't believe my faith was real. All because I was a little goofy and a little girl crazy. Who wasn't both of those things in high school?

Now I'm fifty-seven, and I'm still a little goofy and crazy about my girl Martha, but my faith was very real at 16. Even though my youth pastor refused to invest his life into me, one of the volunteer youth sponsors, Mike, invested his life in me. That investment in my life has made a difference for forty-plus years.

Now was Mike discipling me or mentoring me? Many would argue that being a disciple maker is inherently different than being a mentor. I disagree. Mentors help someone become more like themselves. Disciple makers help someone become more like Jesus. Discipleship invites someone to follow us as we follow Jesus and then step aside so that they can learn directly from the master himself.

I argue that Mike poured his Jesus life into my life and taught me not just about Jesus, but about life and Jesus. I got to live life with him and it changed me forever. Thank you, Mike. Today we're gonna dig deeper into the reality of discipleship and mentoring and its impact on us and our two guests today, John and Liz Jacobs.

They live this each and every day. John and Liz, thanks for joining us here on iWork4Him.

Liz Jacobs: Thanks guys. This is fun to be here.

John Jacobs: Yeah, thanks for having us.

Jim: If you try to focus on becoming more like Jesus, then mentoring someone is not getting them to try to be like you, but Jesus in you. John?

John Jacobs: Yeah. Yes. But I'm gonna just right away say, every time we've done it, I want to make discipleship or mentoring accessible and casual. So if we use words, discipleship, accountability, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna pour Jesus into you, the guys that I'm doing this with, the professionals at an executive level, can be intimidated.

So I'm gonna agree with you and say yes, but every time I try to do it, I bring the tone down and make it really casual so that they are receptive and then over a year's time they grow to be more like Jesus just by watching.

Martha: I love that because Jim and I actually were arguing about this today because I'm like why does it even matter what we call it?

But the, it's the, all of the stereotype, I think that goes with it when you're discussing it. So what, how do you refer to it, John, when you are talking with the guys that you're working with?

John Jacobs: I just call it accountability group. So for me, it's an accountability breakfast. So that takes the stigma off of it to get them to join, but then they learn pretty quickly it's deeper than that.

Martha: Awesome. And Liz, what about for you? How do you refer to what it is that God is calling you to do with people in this mentoring discipleship conversation?

Liz Jacobs: Yeah. There's been a couple of people that I've intentionally met with on a weekly basis for a long period of time, and we just called it mentoring discipleship, but I'm not worrying about those because these are young girls I've met through my church. Maybe they've called the church and asked, is there somebody older than me that would meet with me? So they were maybe even looking for it actively. So those words are okay, in my context, but as far as watching me or watching Jesus in Me, I always think about the Big Daddy Weave song.

I'm not sure if it's called My Story - if I tell you my story, I gotta talk about Jesus. That's my story. And so it's been great for me to be in these situations consistently through high school because I get to share my life through the lens of what God really is doing my life or what I'm learning about God.

And I just appreciate another opportunity to be intentional about these conversations and not just hang out and have coffee and tell me about your boyfriend and that's so great. Or what, how's school for you? It's. Asking the deeper questions and where are you finding God in that, or what does the scripture mean to you? Or, I remember when I was there and this is what I learned. So I'm trying to be really intentional about it. So discipleship is a fine word for me for those girls that are definitely younger than me or just really new in their faith.

Jim: When was the first time, Liz, that someone other than your parents invested their Jesus life into you?

Liz Jacobs: Definitely middle school, but I was 12 and my mom became a Christian. I wouldn't say my childhood was really full of God. We fought all the way to church. I wore shoes that were too small and a dress I hated. So going to church was not something fun for the six kids. And my parents, we were, half hour away and always late.

And I didn't know anyone there but I immediately got involved in a great church. Our family did right away. And I just was in a middle school bible study and it was a gal who was out of college, living in the house, working and volunteering for the church and working as a journalist in town.

And she just signed up to do a bible study and I went to it and it was six years that we met together.

Martha: Wow. So John, what about for you? Was there somebody that you can remember that first started having this kind of relationship with you?

John Jacobs: Yeah. Easy. It was a coach. A football coach, track coach, computer teacher, math teacher, one guy - God just kept colliding us. And then I was invited to Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and through this coach just, we connect and it is a lifetime of pouring in, but I had a lot to learn. Was raised Catholic so it was a very faith-filled family. But I had to learn what it was to be in the word, to understand what a personal relationship was.

I needed a whole lot of discipleship to just understand how to experience God differently, not better or worse, just differently than I had growing up. And Mike was that for me, which ultimately led to an FCA leadership conference in Estes Park, Colorado, where I heard that first invitation and it led me to the next morning, climb the mountain next to Estes Park and literally accept Christ on a mountaintop at sunrise.

So thank you, Mike Cooper.

Jim: Wow. So are you still in touch with Mike Cooper today?

Liz Jacobs: Oh yeah. He was in our wedding.

Jim: Your wedding? You got married 30 years ago. I'd say today. You still in touch with him today?

Liz Jacobs: Like he was an important part then and has continued to be.

John Jacobs: Yes. Yeah. At least monthly interaction with Coop.

Jim: That's awesome. So you would say that somebody older than you impacting or inserting their life into yours, introducing to Jesus, it made a pretty big impact then on your trajectory where you're today?

John Jacobs: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Eternal impact.

Liz Jacobs: Yeah. I just learned from the very beginning of my faith how to be vulnerable and just share with another woman who was a lover of Jesus and loved youth and did things well in her relationships and challenged me to do the same and saw a hungry heart to connect with her. And yeah, I learned from the very beginning that's where a lot of growth really happens.

Martha: What a blessing to have those kind of examples very clearly in both of your lives. I know that you probably hold them very dearly and know how precious that is. And not everybody experiences that, but when we think about the fact that you both were very young when these relationships were happening and these people were pouring into you, there's a lot of people that make generalizations and assume that today's younger generation don't wanna have this conversation.

We know that's not true, and one of our favorite resources that we wanna highlight today is by Grant Skelton, and it is his book called The Passion Generation, where he is speaking as a spokesperson for his own generation to say: we're hungry for this. We want relationships with people that are a little bit further on down the road than me in life and in a spiritual journey.

And so I just wanna encourage our listeners to look at the link that I'm putting in the show notes for that book and check it out. Grant actually wrote chapter 16 in our book, iRetire4Him that gives you a really good perspective of what goes on inside of his book, the passion generation. But they are longing for this relationship and we know that not enough people are stepping up into that role.

And so I hope that this show today will encourage people to look at their own lives, because both of you have talked about it's a very intentional decision in your lives, but you're not following some, 20 chapter manual on how to do it. And so I know we're gonna dig into that a little bit more.

Jim: And really what I'm seeing out there is that - when I first heard the words discipleship in many churches we've been to, it's like a program. Here you go, sixteen-week discipleship program, you're in, you're out, you're done, you're good. And that's not at all what we're talking about.

And that's not what the Passion Generation book, the Grand Skelton book is not talking about either. He's just, let me walk with you through life. Let me experience what you experience. I know we're gonna talk about Jesus along the way, but I just need somebody that's not where I'm at to show me how I can deal with it when I get there.

Martha: In fact, he calls those people, they're looking for chronologically superior. So somebody who's driven a little bit through there. What a beautiful way to say it, right? Not somebody older than me or having experienced more life, but chronologically superior. So it gives it a nice little positive spin.

Jim: All right. So John, have you ever heard this saying: everybody should have a Paul in their life, a Barnabas in their life and a Timothy? What's it mean to you?

John Jacobs: Yeah. For me it's I need somebody chronologically superior - I'm gonna use that - Chronologically Superior that is teaching me then somebody that I'm serving with, doing ministry with, and then somebody that I'm pouring into.

Liz Jacobs: We actually asked all of our kids to have those three things in their lives while they were in high school. And they had to report back to us and tell ,us at least our younger two.

John Jacobs: And we, at some point, my wife, who's smarter than me, figured out that sometimes we actually had to pay for that.

Liz Jacobs: So seriously. That's true. There were people that were maybe doing the job our kids dreamed about and wanting to do, and one of those people were running the AV at our church and our oldest really interested in that but maybe not gonna put himself out there to shake all the hands or volunteer for all that. He responded well when people would come to him.

And so I just gave a $20 bill to this dude and said, I would love to buy you lunch if you'll take my son out and just talk to him about what you do and teach him about it and ask him if he'd be interested. He talks a lot about you at home and at dinner. He is watching what you're doing. I think you're an awesome person. And he was like, yeah, I love your kid.

Jim: I'll take the 20! Today 20 wouldn't do it. You'd have to have a 50. But,

Liz Jacobs: I'm like, don't tell him I gave you the 20, but I'd love to buy you lunch. And if you would just call him I'd love to give you a heads up that he's really watching you really closely. And we just did that to people along the way and it was great. I think people love to know that because there's a lot of people that wouldn't be against any of that, but maybe they just don't consistently make room in their lives to spend that time with other people.

John Jacobs: And our kids wouldn't have responded. If they just invite our kids to go to lunch and they're gonna talk about church AV, or they're gonna talk about athletics, or they're gonna talk about music, then our kids are in.

Didn't have to be us. Yeah. It wasn't parents forcing them into a discipleship, mentoring, whatever. Oh, you gotta go to youth group. Which we did all those things too but this was those consistent, regular, periodic, informal casual interactions that turned into great friendships.

Liz Jacobs: Really. Yeah. And good relationships.

Jim: But, and I know exactly what you're talking about. So in, in junior high school and in senior high school, during the summertime, when I wasn't working at church camp, I dug ditches and foundations for a contractor who was also the computer teacher in high school, who was also a believer, who was also my neighbor.

And he poured his life into me one shovel full of dirt or one bucket full of cement at a time. And he's the one that shaped my initial career. He said, Jimmy, you need to get into computers. That's the wave of the future. And I'm like this guy told me I should do that. I should probably do that.

Even though my father says, no, that's not a good idea. But my father wasn't a believer at the time, and this guy was, so I listened to him. But, he poured his life, very informal relationship. But I'll never forget the impact that Paul Conrad had on my life because he invested in me and I was squirrely. I was a hard worker, but I was a little squirrely. I noticed you're not arguing with that.

Martha: Oh no. I've heard this. You've shared this all of our married life and, I love the fact that yes, he was paying you a wage, but he saw it as so much more than that because you could work by side with a teenager all day and not say anything productive or you can choose to be intentional and feed into that person to see them grow and be nurtured. And really, that's what we're talking about here. Oh, Jim wants to ask you something else.

Jim: I just, right now in your life, let's just start with you, Liz. Do you have a Pauline? And a Barbie? And a Tina in your life?

Liz Jacobs: Oh my gosh, that's so funny. A Pauline, a Barbie and a Tina. He had to go there. I think it's a new sitcom or something. Yeah, actually I would say that I consistently have had Barnabas's and Timothy's in my life.

I always am looking for friends who are doing what I'm doing that have the same values or our kids maybe connect or our couples connect wherever I am volunteering or working. And super intentional about that. And we've moved 12 times, so we had a lot of restarts. That we had to pursue people and knock on doors and make cookies and introduce ourselves and seek people out.

So that hasn't been hard. But now I'm actually week three, week four, into meeting with someone that I'm not paying to be my Paul. And what I mean by that is a counselor, a life coach, somebody that I am scheduling time out for a season. And I love that too. We've had, I had a spiritual director I worked with for six months, about three years ago, four years ago.

And that's a person who just creates space for you of where you hear God where do you see God moving? And she just really, in a time that I was needing joy or more hope, it was really great to meet with her and she's so wise and we were in the word together the whole time. It was just really beautiful.

And I say that is a Paul in my life for sure. I just, I needed that. And then a life coach November through this last May, working with me, which is so great. And again, a spirit filled situation where we were in the word together and she was meeting me right where I was and asking me questions.

But now it's a gal named Mary who was in our lives when we moved to Minnesota and knows Martha, your parents. Mary Lebinski. And I had been encouraging several people over the last six months, you really need to be working and discipling someone or mentoring someone. It's just, it's so great to be in a situation where you're living a life out loud in front of people, vulnerable.

It just really sharpens your focus and your quiet time and being intentional with these people. And, we're in our fifties now. We have something to say and we kind have a badge where maybe people will listen to us now. But I said, I keep saying that, but I'm not meeting with someone right now.

And so I told John, I go, I think I'll call Mary Lebinski. I haven't talked with her in months and months. I'm just wondering if she would do that with me and do Zoom 'cause she's in Minnesota. I didn't call her just, I don't know why. I kept wanting it, but I just didn't pick up the phone and call.

And she texted me one day and said I had this great memory of when Ryan was little. She was a big part of our life and our youngest was born and it just made me smile and made me think of you, and I really miss you. And so I picked the phone up and I said, Hey, Mary.

Jim: Hey Mary. God's been telling me to call you for three months, but I've been ignoring God, and so I'm glad you listened to God and called me to get this conversation.

 (laughter)

Liz Jacobs: What I'll say is I feel so strongly about it, but all of my attention and focus have really been preparing for who I'm mentoring. And like we have this newly marrieds group that we love and there's eight couples, but I talk with these eight girls individually every week by text, continuing on a conversation we might have had.

And then we're meeting with them on the weekends. And so that's so much time. I wasn't deciding that it was worth making more room for me to prepare and meet with someone who would be a Paul to me. And so the beautiful thing was we both acknowledged the Holy Spirit's moving in both of our hearts and bringing our paths together because I never really have done that, but I just signed up at my church to do this for a younger girl, and I've been preparing for six weeks for it, and we're starting this week, so I'm saying yes to you because that's all I've been doing this summer is preparing to mentor someone.

Martha: Oh, that's so beautiful. And to be able to see God's hand in that timing of all of it. So John, I just wanna ask you, first of all, I just wanna acknowledge the fact that, you are continuing to look for where God wants you to be and I think that's a big key to this conversation.

 But John, has there been a time in your life when you haven't had these relationships and why?

John Jacobs: Yeah. As I think about that, there's seasons in life, I think that God intentionally puts you in because there's some things that you need to learn. I tend to run with the throttle wide open. And there's a famous line if you're a movie buff, Hunt for Red October, where the submarines are, have their sonar on, which all of us have our sonar on. I'm always looking like, where's God moving? Trying to go where he is. But there's a line in that Hunt for Red October that their sonar, they're actively putting their sonar, but they're going too fast to hear the response.

So if you're going too fast, it's very difficult for you to hear the response from what's coming back for your sonar. So I think there's been times in my life where I haven't had that, that I'm supposed to be spend more time and quiet time, more time in the word. In seasons, full seasons of time just studying and preparing, and then all of a sudden the right person crosses paths and then something big happens, which has happened in several occasions. I think those seasons are intentional and now I think I tend to look for them for a chance to slow down a bit.

Liz Jacobs: It came with our moves too. When you're resetting in a new city in a new place. There's a season where we didn't maybe have that. And that was a time before Zoom calls.

We could always pick up the phone and call someone. We've always had support. Always. Always. And so our first priority was to get in a small group wherever we were. And so I think some of these relationships were naturally happening. And that's how I met, this gal Mary. They were leading our small group, so we probably always had great things being spoken over us and we were in front of people to be vulnerable and practice those things, but not intentionally where we'd say right now I'm being mentored by this person.

Jim: Yeah I love the transparency and we're grateful for that. Martha, sometimes our daily iWork4Him Power Thoughts that are playing on radio stations with people listening on Facebook. They can listen, they can subscribe to 'em on Apple podcast.

Those can be like having a recorded Paul or Barnabas in your life. And I just wanna encourage you, listeners, you could subscribe to the weekday podcast. It's five days a week that gives you a minute of either encouragement or challenge. Depends on whether Martha's reading it or I'm reading it or either way.

But as you head into your workday, you can listen to this, and we're gonna put the link to subscribing to our power thoughts right there on, on today's show. But you can also find our power thoughts on our website or on our Facebook feed. We'd encourage you to get checked, connected to 'em. We put a lot of time and effort into writing that one minute that it can just impact and get your day started.

I take the final part of our conversation, John and Liz even deeper because everybody's going: okay, great. Love the conversation. Yes. I need to have a mentor in my life. Yes. I need to have an encourager in my life. Yes. I need to have somebody I'm pouring my life into. How do I get started? What do you think? Give some advice.

John Jacobs: Okay. So this is big for me. When we moved back to Kansas City, I had a pastor friend that knew both of us, actually had a deeper history with Liz. Called me and said, I'm really being stirred by God and I've read this book and I wanna run something by you. And it's turned into a truly life-changing event that's gonna answer exactly what you just asked Jim.

 The theory of the book that he read was that you take, you invite two men to do this informal mentoring. I'll call it mentoring, I call it accountability. And you really, you just say, I just wanna meet with you, but I want this to be serious and I want it to be weekly breakfast. You don't have to prep, you don't have to do homework, but you have to come ready to be transparent.

And so you make that commitment and you're gonna do it for a year. And in that year, you're gonna meet every week. If you're traveling, you just have to coordinate it. But basically you're gonna, you're gonna meet once a week and you're gonna answer four questions. How's your relationship with God this week? How is your relationship with your spouse this week? How is your relationship with your kids or significant others if your kids are gone? And then what are you tempted and struggling with? That, that changes every week. And if you're transparent, that can change wildly. Your answers. Your life circumstance.

And so he asked if I would do that, and I did it for a year. And he said, now here's the deal. I want you to do it for a year, and then I want you to be committed that at a year we're gonna be really comfortable with each other and we're gonna have been so honest, you're gonna wanna stay in this group.

And I'm gonna say no. And say, we're gonna break at a year and you're gonna go find two new people. And the theory is that this is gonna exponentially grow and you're gonna grow this body of believers that are men that typically don't want to get together and talk, but you're just gonna keep exponentially growing in this.

That was 13 years ago for me, and so I've done that 13 times. I counted up a little bit in preparation for this, that there's been twenty-seven men I've met with over 13 years. And I will tell you regretfully, that maybe less than one hand is the number of men - every single one, a hundred percent said it was one of the best years they've ever had, but less than 10 have gone on to do it that second year, and it is that simple.

Jim, you asked, what do you do? You just have to pick two people and ask them to meet for breakfast. And that is so hard for us as believers. These are people who poured into each other for a year that struggle,

Liz Jacobs: and some weren't even Christians.

John Jacobs: A few, a handful were not.

Liz Jacobs: Just seeking. Didn't really know.

John Jacobs: Yeah. So I've had, I've met with some Pauls, some Barnabas and some Timothes all throughout that period. So it can be all three. It doesn't have to be always somebody that's chronologically superior to you, or somebody that's not. But anyway it, it has been life changing for me. I know it's been life changing for them.

The challenge is, and I start working up as we're working towards the end of the year just motivating them and saying, this isn't a Bible study. You don't have to have a whole bunch of embedded knowledge. You're not teaching, you're simply setting up a breakfast time. So anyway, so the answer to your question is you have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone and ask.

But it, every single year, it's just, it's fresh and new and incredible. So anyway, it was, it's been hugely life-changing for me.

Martha: And I love the fact that it is not - there are great programs out there, but this is not. This is real, authentic, transparent conversation with four very simple, yet hard to ask questions each and every week.

So Liz the same thing for you. How does it look practically for you right now?

Liz Jacobs: So I think it's also for me just praying and asking the Lord who needs this? So I do pray about that because I'm wanting to start a Bible study in September and I'm like, oh man, it started in mid August and I don't know who's ready to do this.

And so I'm just committing to pray for that. I bought the books and everything, but I also have called our church before. I think I alluded to this earlier, is there somebody here in the congregation that you would suggest I could call that might wanna meet with me? And I have been a person twice that younger girls in just awesome maturity have called the church and said, I really need someone to mentor me. Do you know somebody older that would be willing to do it? And both times they're like Liz Jacobs would do that.

 And I just gotta make room. Like for me, if someone's asking unless I'm sick or have some tragedy or something we're dealing with, I just have to say yes. You just have to be available to say yes and somebody offers it up.

But also I've been just seeking out some people who are central to, like our church, mostly around our church to say - there was a gal who is my age who said I was teaching her son piano and she said, I just wanna know if we could meet for, weeks of time, could we do a semester?

And it turned into being two years where you would mentor me. And I looked at her and I go, that's dumb. We're the same age. What are you talking about? You became a Christian when you were six. I know, but I think I just need to meet with someone. And so we would laugh 'cause we knew a lot of the same people, but if we were out walking together, we would walk and pray.

It was a very physically active thing we did, which is so great. And if we saw someone, she'd always say, Liz is mentoring me. And I'd be like, I think Sandy is mentoring me. But it was really good. I think she needed a friend. They had a lot of great friends, but she was finding that people just were not willing to be vulnerable.

And I think she got that vibe from me and she just needed someone that would just not only hear her vulnerable heart to say, yeah, I get that. Me too, or I don't know. I really struggle with this. Instead of where she couldn't feel like she could ever be honest with people because they would talk about her or whatever.

Jim: Liz, you just said something. Okay. You know she said you're mentoring her, but you're saying no, but I'm getting mentored. I imagine both of you would say that no matter who you're pouring your life into, it always goes both ways, doesn't it?

Liz Jacobs: It does. And I think the goal of having Timothy's in your life is to bring them to a part where you're, then you're walking together. And so that changes after time too.

Jim: I thought that was, it could help us with our cell phones. I thought that.

Martha: That, that's a benefit too. Okay. But you know that really speaks true of the couples that you're feeding into 'cause as we feed into other couples, it grows your own marriage as well, right?

Jim: It sure does. Oh yeah.

John Jacobs: We're, yes, seeing all these young marrieds and just getting to hang out with 'em and see their energy and yeah, we pour into them. We keep saying we're not teaching them anything, we're just sharing our experiences and all of the mistakes we've made and all the things that we've learned and we get so much back from them and it's great.

Jim: You just living life together, John and Liz Jacobs, phenomenal conversation. We encourage everybody listening to be just like John and Liz. Pour your life into somebody else.

But John and Liz, thanks for sharing your story. Thanks for encouraging all of us to pour our lives into others and to get people to invest in our lives, but to hold people accountable, to be involved in mentoring, discipling relationships, whatever you wanna call it. But just to be a Paul and a Barnabas and a Timothy maybe all at the same time to different people, but thank you John and Liz.

John Jacobs: Thank you guys for having us and thank you for what you do and inspiring people at work to bring your faith outside of just what happens casually on the weekends or in your home and go to work with you 'cause it's truly inspirational what you guys are doing. It's beyond the topic of this, but your work is incredible. It matters greatly. Thanks for what you guys are doing.

Jim: Yeah it's a privilege. Always a privilege.

Hey, there's so many tools available, but what really matters is that you make your heart and your life available to others. If you're interested in a journey of mentoring others to impact the kingdom, reach out to me, jim@iWork4Him.com and we can chat some more.

You've been listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha. Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him. By going to iwork4Him.com/bookstore .

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