Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference Podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader together. Let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: Martha and I are super excited to be hosting the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Every podcast is dedicated to you. Our Outcomes Conference Podcast listener.

We have an incredible conversation coming up today with the national commander of The Salvation Army commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder with The Salvation Army usa.org. We'll be focusing on leadership thriving and of course related outcomes. Commissioner Kenneth G Hodder. Welcome to the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Kenneth Hodder: Thank you so much, Jim and Martha, it's a delight to be with you today.

Jim: All right. So before we get started talking about leadership and your leadership role and perspective of what God is doing through you, as you lead a thriving environment at The Salvation Army in the United States, tell us how you personally keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ-centered each and every day?

Kenneth Hodder: Well, for me, Jim, I think it would come down to the daily routine. I have always found that personal discipline is one of the keys to a strong relationship with the Lord. So I'm up early every morning. And I begin my day with coffee and Jesus similar to all the signs that you'll often see in stores.

I'm a big believer in both. So I'll get up in the morning and enjoy my coffee. And then I will have a time of devotional reading and prayer. And in the course of that time, I'll usually focus on a couple of things. First of course, the passage that I'm reading for that day. Second. I will recall my personal mission statement.

Every day. I try to review what I believe the Lord has called me to do and to be and in my case for many years, I've always had the same mission statement. I will serve my God to whom I owe everything, my family, whom I love limitlessly and the army to which I am called. And then I will always ask the Lord to help me to do three things that day.

To be wise and to be kind and to be helpful. So following that discipline has always, I believe been one of the keys to helping me keep close to him and by so doing close to the source of power that I need every day.

Martha: Hmm, amen. Wow. What a, what a great thing for us to hear and get a little bit of an insight into how you start your day. And maybe that will challenge somebody to think about so many things have a mission statement and actually using that in your morning to set, to say, to pray into it.

Jim: I'm inspired. I wanna write one.

Martha: I know that's so great. So obviously those are things that help you to thrive, but why don't you articulate for us what thriving really means to you personally?

Kenneth Hodder: Well, I, I like to think that my concept of thriving is drawn from scripture itself. If you look into scripture, you'll find that those individuals who thrive, those who achieve what God has set before them as things to be accomplished are those who have totally given themselves to that purpose. When you look at Noah and you look at Abraham.

And you look at Joseph and you look at David and you look into the new Testament, Paul and Peter. These are individuals who committed themselves completely. So in my mind, thriving is a matter of covenant. It's a matter of responding to a call and doing so in a way that holds nothing back. I've also, I've often recalled the story of Abraham and Isaac.

When Abraham takes, what is most significant to him, his son, for whom he prayed and that he never thought he would ever have. And he takes that son and he places his son on the altar because he believes the Lord is calling upon him to sacrifice his son. At the conclusion of the story, of course, the Lord returns his son to him.

Right. And I've always wondered about that hug that must have took place between the two of them. When Abraham received for the second time, the son for whom he had prayed. Well, that joy, that sense of connection, that sense of fulfillment only came because Abraham had totally committed himself to what the Lord wanted him to do. So for me, thriving is a matter of living out a covenant.

Jim: How long have you been? I, I, you know, I, sorry, I, I keep thinking about that, that image in my head, Abraham and Isaac. And I'm wondering for Isaac that that hug for Abraham was incredible for Isaac he's. I, my dad might need counseling. God. I mean, he was holding a knife over my chest.

But

Kenneth Hodder: you know, the scripture says nothing. I know about Isaac even doubting it. Yeah. You know Isaac knew he was a part of a greater plan in a sense he was even more committed than his father was. And so yeah, it, it, to our modern minds, right, which function along the sense of individual achievement, individual goals individual flourishing, that seems like a strange image, but I think the biblical image is one in which thriving is not a personally directed phenomenon. It is a God-directed one.

Jim: Wow. Ken, how long have you been with The Salvation Army?

Kenneth Hodder: I've been an officer now for 33 years.

Jim: So you're no rookie that's for sure. Okay. So that's fantastic. So how does The Salvation Army USA, cause I know you're, you're in charge of the United States division of The Salvation Army. How does it enable you to help those you serve to thrive, whether that's the, the other officers within The Salvation Army that you know, the employees of The Salvation Army across the country or the, the people that you're actually serving in stores and in rehab treatment places across the country? How, how does The Salvation Army say go help people thrive?

Kenneth Hodder: What I love about the army, Jim, is that The Salvation Army is not a single purpose organization. We're not simply directed toward food or to housing or to rehabilitation, nor are we simply directed to the proclamation of the gospel. It's all of it for us to be able to say, we're going to help.

In Christ's name without discrimination, we're gonna do so in such a way as to proclaim in word. And indeed the gospel that we believe is the Lord's message to the whole world gives us the opportunity to hit every person at every point in their lives, whether it's there lonely, whether they're in mourn, whether they're in despair or whether they're hungry or they're homeless.

The army has the ability to reach them, that sort of breadth, that sort of encompassing ministry is what I think one of the great strengths of the army is, and that has commended itself to people over the 156 years of our existence. So that is the way I think the army is able to help people thrive because everyone's gonna need something different, but the army is called by God to help supply what is needed.

Martha: You know, that's so good because you do meet so many needs in different ways. So let's talk about the fact that, you know, a lot of companies have to try different things to see what's gonna work to help build a thriving culture. What are you doing right now that's having the greatest impact in that area?

Kenneth Hodder: I think communication is key. This podcast is a fine demonstration of what we're doing right now. Every week, Martha, I will do another video for our people. So that they're able to stay right up to speed with what's going on. We get out and talk as much as we possibly can, based upon the regulations that are in place in the various locations around the country, you can never over communicate.

And over the course of the past year, I have therefore committed myself until it myself. Uh, in terms of maybe 60, 70% of my time, simply. To communicating messages that I think are going to help and encourage and inspire those who are on the front line to do what the Lord's called didn't them to do.

Jim: I love that. When we come back, we really wanna hit you up on, okay - the last 18 months everybody's had a challenge. How have they impacted you? Today we're talking on the Outcomes Conference Podcast with the national commander of The Salvation Army here in the United States of America. Commissioner, Kenneth Hodder. Check 'em out online, salvationarmyusa.org. Will be right back with more on the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast. As we talk with commissioner, Kenneth Hodder from The Salvation Army salvation army usa.org. All right. The last 18 months for most people has been a little bit challenging as leaders. We have faced lots of uncertainty and a lot of things. I mean, you know, the word pivot got to be, you know, heavily overused. What changes did you have to make in the last 18 months, personally, or professionally that helped you keep focused on your mission as a leader?

Kenneth Hodder: I don't know that I have pivoted or changed anything over the course of the last year. I think the lessons that I learned prior to that time have become more real to me.

For a number of years, my wife and I had the privilege of serving in Kenya and I worked for a Kenyan officer there who taught me a very simple Principle. The army is growing like topsy in Kenya. It really is expanding dramatically. And I said to him, one day, I said, how do you keep track of everything that's going on?

And he said, I don't. He said, I cannot tell you where my staff is, but I know that they're there on my behalf. And I think that lesson and others, like it have what have really come to my mind on many occasions over the course of the past year. It has become very difficult when you're in a lockdown situation to know precisely where your people are as a leader, what are they doing?

But that is not your first priority. Your first priority is to make sure that they are representing you and representing the Lord. Well, So what can I do from where I am recognizing they're out there doing things that I can't imagine they're being innovative, they're being creative. Mm-hmm how can I do things that are going to help them to represent the army to the best of their ability? So I think that together with other lessons really have crystallized a lot of the things that I saw and had been taught in years prior to the pandemic.

Martha: So practically speaking, what was one of the biggest challenges that you have faced as you've, you know, not always been able to be with your people or know what's going on?

Kenneth Hodder: I think the, one of the biggest challenges for Salvationist in general, Martha has been sheer exhaustion. The Salvation Army is the nation's largest not social services provider. And as a consequence, the demands upon The Salvation Army have been extraordinary over the course of the past year.

We're fortunate that we have dedicated officers. We have outstanding employees. We have a volunteer force of about 3 million, but when you put together all of the food drives the deliveries of food to seniors, when you put together everything that's had to happen in the past year exhaustion has been a big issue. More than 8 million people have fallen into poverty over the course of the past year.

Jim: Just here in the states.

Kenneth Hodder: 8 million here in the states, just, just here in the United States. And there are still more than 9 million people out of work. Well, when you consider those things and when you consider that in a typical year, The Salvation Army will serve about 52 million meals about a million a week.

Well, last year it was 225 million. Oh, my it was just massive. So one of the biggest challenges we've faced is exhaustion. Uh, Has been the mental and the physical strain that our people have had to deal with. I'm delighted to say they have performed magnificently.

Martha: Well, and that's what I was just gonna ask you with all the amazing volunteers and the, and the workers with their creativity and their energy. What is one breakthrough that maybe you saw this year that you'd really like to celebrate?

Kenneth Hodder: I have to celebrate the enormous trust and generosity of the American public. Mm. Uh, Many of the folks who support The Salvation Army have a full understanding of what we are and what we do. Many do not. Even those that do not trust The Salvation Army enough to support our work, christmas was a time when this year, the number of kettles was down because the number of store locations was significantly reduced, but giving was way up. And as a consequence, when we concluded the year, we were about 27% above where we were in 2019.

Jim: Come on. Nobody would've ever said that was even possible.

Kenneth Hodder: That is a miracle of God. It, it just, just astonishing. It was just a little bit over half a billion dollars and we could not be more grateful and we could not feel more delighted by the Lord's provision. Mm-hmm in the midst of all of that. We could not be more conscious of our responsibility to be good stewards of those funds. But that has clearly been a big breakthrough for us over the course of the past year.

Jim: That's astounding. It's funny. I didn't read that in the news...

All right. So listen, a lot of leaders study things. They listen to other podcasts. They I'm sure they're listened to, you know, so I heard a great one. iWork4Him or something like that.

That's a good one. but you know, they read great books. They listen to great podcasts. They do a lot of studying and sometimes you run across something like everybody in my command needs to hear this. What's one of those things that you've shared with everybody underneath you in the last year?

Kenneth Hodder: I read a lot, Jim, I try to read at least two books a month. And one book that I recently read struck me just in the way that you suggest. It's a new book by Robert Putnam and Shaylyn Romney Garrett it's called the upswing. Now you will recall Robert Putnam's book bowling alone, which was issued in the late nineties regarding the decline of social capital in this country.

Well, Bob and Shaylyn have mapped out the history of the past 120 years, all the way back to the Gilded age and based upon their analysis of economic trends and culture and politics and social structure that what we are encountering today in society is very similar to what america was living through in the Gilded age.

Jim: Hmm. When you say gilded age, what years is that?

Kenneth Hodder: We're talking the 1880s. 1890s. Okay. So at the beginning of the 20th century, the progressive movement started to bring people together. So we were not thinking of ourselves so much as an I society as a we society. And over the course of the next 50 or 60 years, they track out a climb in that sense of cohesion and community relationship.

Since that time they chart that it has come back down again, such that we're roughly where we were about 120 years ago, but then the most powerful part of their book is the one in which they say, this is the moment at which we can come together, that we, the history suggests that we can turn things around.

And I believe that this is therefore an enormous opportunity for the gospel, for the army, for men and women, for leaders who believe that they can bring others together to do so, because if there was a time that America needs it, it's now. I believe that the gospel we have, which transcends all time and place is precisely the tool that we can use.

Not only to bring people to him, but to, to witness to the whole world. So I found that book compelling and I shared it with every member of my staff, as well as every member of my national advisory board everyone across the country I could possibly think of. In fact, I should send you a copy.

Jim: Our address is at the bottom of our email signature!

Kenneth Hodder: I'll do it.

Jim: All right, Ken, when we come back, I wanna ask you this question. You're a third generation, a national commander, The Salvation Army. That's amazing. I want, I want to hear about that legacy and what led you to get there?

You're listening to the Outcomes Conference Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, as we talk to the national commander of The Salvation Army online salvation army usa.org. It's commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder. We'll be right back.

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Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Like I said, we're your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. And today we have the privilege of talking with the national commader of The Salvation Army here in the United States, salvation army usa.org. We're talking with commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder. Ken, I am under the understanding that you're a third generation national commander of The Salvation Army. Many kids run away from the legacy. What did I say wrong?

Martha: Is that correct?

Jim: Is that correct?

Kenneth Hodder: Actually, no, that's not quite correct, Jim. Actually I'm a sixth generation salvationist a fifth generation officer. And a second generation national commander.

Jim: Wow. Okay. So like I said, most kids run away from the legacy, pushed on them from their forefathers and you're the sixth generation being pushed in this way. Yeah. Why did you run towards it instead of a way?

Kenneth Hodder: A call a divine call. I never intended to be a salvation army officer. I went to law school and thoroughly enjoyed the private practice of law. For a number of years I found it intellectually stimulating and financially remunerative. It was wonderful, but one day came when I simply felt as I looked at the piles of paper on my desk, that it wasn't enough that the Lord had something else in mind for me.

So I knelt at my desk and I prayed and he called me back to salvation army officership. And I've never regretted it from that day forward.

Jim: Wow, what a legacy.

Martha: No kidding. And you know, I am sure that all of that training that you had up until that point, God has used in an amazing way for the benefit of The Salvation Army. So, you know, that's one of the things I think we love hearing from people is that, you know, our training is for purpose, right. And God's using you in that way. So amazing. So let's talk about in this last little part, the Christian Leadership Alliance is a place where leaders really invest in other leaders, the best of what they know and sharing it with others. What can you right now share with the listeners to invest in them as a leader?

Kenneth Hodder: Don't try to change people. The Lord will take care of any changes that need to occur in their lives. The job of leader is simply to fit the pieces together in the best way to achieve the mission of the organization. I have always founded a source of great frustration to try to say to someone, I want you to do this or that to be something that perhaps they could not be.

But if I simply try to assemble my team in a way that one's strengths would assist another's weaknesses that I found, it was a lot more success. And a lot more harmonious as a team. So that would be my advice to leaders today to let the Lord do the changing and we simply pull the pieces together.

Jim: But have you ever struggled with that? I mean, it's really nice to say, but sometimes people are on the wrong when you, because when you take over a command like you weren't national commander last year, there was a different couple. Sometimes there's people on the wrong seat. Sometimes they're on the wrong bus as our, as our great friends, you know, wrote that book. Okay. So what do you do there? How do you handle that?

Kenneth Hodder: Well, for The Salvation Army, that's a matter of assembling the pieces. Our, our structure is such that if an individual is not Gifted for a particular role, we're able to say you need to serve over in this area and we'll make a change. Their covenant is just as important. Their commitment is unchanged. They're simply serving in a different role. So for us as salvation army that's simply a part of the process.

Martha: Mm. So, you know, I think that's, it really goes back to knowing your people too, and really being able to spend time with them and know where they're gifted and what they're doing. So thank you for sharing that. I am sure that the leaders that are listening, you know, have a, an opportunity to look at themselves and their leadership skills and think how they can implement that in their own work.

Jim: And getting to know our people is just so important and loving on 'em and yeah, that's... and trusting him, as you said, that's the biggest thing you said at the beginning of this podcast was like, okay, you got all these people, a million volunteers that I'm still getting over that number. And you just gotta trust him to know that God's got 'em right, where he needs them to do the job they needs to do.

Kenneth Hodder: Precisely. He, he wouldn't have made them available to us if he didn't have a plan.

Martha: Mm wow.

Jim: Commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder. Thank you so much for being on the Outcomes Conference Podcast today. Really appreciate it.

Kenneth Hodder: It's been a delight to be with you. God bless.

Go check out The Salvation Army online. Maybe you wanna be one of those million volunteers, salvation army usa.org. And thank you for joining us on the Outcomes Conference Podcast. As a listener, we just thank you for joining us. And we pray that the podcast will inspire you to higher thinking, deeper just faith about how you can find a greater kingdom impact and bring thriving your organization.

Martha: Be sure to visit Christian Leadership Alliance.org, where you can stay up to date by subscribing to the outcomes online newsletter and the Christian Leadership Alliance Higher thinking blog.

Jim: And if you're not already a member of the Christian Leadership Alliance, what are you waiting for? Join the Alliance today. Christian Leadership Alliance.org.

Martha: Remember the wisdom in this podcast came to you on its way to someone else. So if you loved it, say so and share it today with a friend.

Jim: And if you didn't love it, don't say so. No seriously. I'm Jim.

Martha: I'm Martha.

Jim: We'll see you again for the next episode of the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest.

That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast, with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at, iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I work the number four, him.com.