Welcome to the, iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian and do a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference Podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader together. Let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: Martha and I are excited to host the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Every podcast is dedicated to you, our Outcomes Conference Podcast listener. We've got an incredible conversation coming up today with Rich Stearns of World Vision. Ring a bell? You're going to hear more about his time there and really a lot about his life.

As a leader, we'll be focusing on leadership, thriving and of course related outcomes. Rich, Stearns, welcome to the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Rich Stearns: Hey, thank you so much, Jim and Martha, I've been looking forward to our conversation.

Jim: Yeah. Before we get started talking about your leadership roles and perspective of what God has done through you, as you lead a thriving environment and World Vision and your other organizations. Tell us how you personally keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered each and every day.

Rich Stearns: Well, you know, Jim, I think we all understand that discipleship and the growth in the Lord is a lifelong process. It's not a one and done kind of thing where, you know, you become a Christian and you're done.

And so it's a process. And you know, for me, it's always been about, you know, finding time to spend time with the Lord. Scripture and in prayer usually in the mornings. But also uh, you know, I think I would have to say fellowship with other Christians. You know, during my years at World Vision, I was really fortunate.

I think those of us that work in Christian ministry are very fortunate that we're surrounded by a team of committed Christians, right. To keep one another fresh and accountable and growing in the Lord. And we had literally had devotions every morning at World Vision with our small group. And then we had chapel every Wednesday.

Where we had worship time together as, as an organization. And so all of that serve to help keep me and the other leaders and folks at World Vision grounded in our faith. And you know, also just more privately or more personally, my wife and I are part of a couples Bible study group. And we have actually been in this group for more than 40 years now, it's been different groups because we've lived in different cities, but we've never gone a whole year where we weren't in kind of a peer group couples Bible study. My wife always says, I like these Bible studies because when I see the other men in the Bible study, I realize that you're not all that bad. She compares and says, well, you know, Rich isn't much, but you know, I'd probably rather have him than these other guys.

Jim: You know, I'm pretty sure Renee probably doesn't put it just that way, but you should give a shout out to Renee because she is the one who introduced you to Jesus.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. And you know, she's also a very important part of keeping me grounded and accountable as a human being and a follower of Jesus, because she's, she's always been kind of the bedrock of our family's faith.

And she leads women's Bible studies and, you know, she's in the word every day. And so you know, when your spouse sets pretty high expectations for you, that's a, that's, that's also a way of keeping you grounded and focused on the Lord. So...

Martha: That's so good. So thank you for sharing that. So as we talk about the word thrive, it can mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you personally? To thrive and just share that with us.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. You know, I think the, what I would talk about here is, is that when we are aligned with God's purposes for our lives. You know, when we all have a tendency to compartmentalize our lives, especially people that work in secular work.

Where, when you go to work, it, you know, it can feel like combat. It can be a difficult culture, it can be a cuss culture that's hostile toward your faith. And so I think there's always a temptation to compartmentalize and say, well, Lord, I'm going to keep that part of my life outside of my Christian faith.

And I'll be a Christian in the rest of it. But, but when we compartmentalize, we have this kind of discord in our lives and, and, and when. We're not aligned with God's purposes or we're not feeling God's affirmation in the same way we do when we kind of surrender our entire life to the Lord, a career, whatever it is, money, career relationships, et cetera.

So I think being aligned with God's purposes and understanding that our, our true purpose as followers of Christ is to be his ambassador. Wherever we work wherever we live. You know, 2 Corinthians 5:20 says we are therefore Christ ambassadors as though God is making his appeal through us.

And that always sends a chill up my spine. When I, when I read that verse, because I want to be a good ambassador, you know, and ambassadors but what did they do? They represent the character and the value. And the interests of the one who sends them. And so every Christian needs to think of themselves as an ambassador for Christ.

So but there's another side of thriving that I would just mention. And it's it's about balance in our lives, right? Balance between work and family, friends, church. You know, I like to say, if your life is your work and your work is your life, you probably aren't going to thrive as an individual because you live in a work dominated you know, reality.

And that that's not a healthy place to be for us. And, you know, workaholics, I think Christian ministry is really attractive to workaholics because they can say I'm just doing it for the Lord. You can say that to your kids. You can say that to your spouse. You can, you can say that to your friends.

Jim: You can say it to your divorce lawyer.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. But I'm just doing it for the, for the Lord. And, you know, the founder of World Vision back in 1950 was a workaholic. And after about 17 years into, you know, creating World Vision and, and building it into a kind of a nationally known organization, his life was so out of balance that he lost his marriage.

He lost a child to suicide. You know, he became estranged from his family any, and he literally had kind of an emotional breakdown and the board of directors fired him from his own ministry. And it just a really tragic story of what happened because his life got out of balance. So I think I think if you're going to thrive in your work, you need to put it in perspective and, and have the appropriate balance in your life between your work and your, your home life, your, your church responsibilities., family. So...

Jim: rich, you've had kind of a story. You've got you really, your career has been a storied career. I mean, you spent the last 20 years or so with World Vision as the president. And but before that you were also over CEO at Parker Brothers and Lenox who makes china. You know, what a great, how about a job where you get to play games all day? I just think that's fantastic. I must've just been great playing games all day at Parker Brothers. Yeah, I'm sure that's probably what it was or eating on fine china in the lunch room. That's probably at a crystal glasses in the conference room. I'm sure that's what.

Rich Stearns: You know that th that Parker Brother's job, Jim, I was 25 when I went to work for Parker Brothers, and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven because here I am, I'm still a kid.

Right. And I'm being paid. I literally, it was being paid to play games and to invent new games and, you know, come up with new games. So that was it, a lot of ways, a dream job. And I don't know if you ever saw the movie Big. Well, the whole thing is Tom Hanks - he was a kid in an adult body. And he kept getting promoted because they thought he was a genius because he understands, understood kids and what kids would buy.

And I felt like that movie was kind of the story of my life, that I was still a kid. And, you know, I just had instincts about what kinds of games and toys kids would play with. And so I had these ideas that became successful and I got promoted. I ended up being CEO of that company when I was still a kid, I was 33.

And but it was kind of that fun job. Th it was just a ball.

Jim: Just a sideline, we want to know - take credit for. What's one thing that you green-lighted at Parker Brothers that still is around today? That was an idea that you're like, I love that idea that will work.

Rich Stearns: Well. I don't know if you've ever played the word game Boggle. It's it's, it's a pretty popular word game. And we introduced that in the late 1970s. I did the ad campaign for it and it's still around today. Another little point of trivia. The first home star wars video game was published by Parker Brothers in 1982. I believe it was. And and I was the one that kind of negotiated for the star wars license for home video games. And we did several star wars video games back then.

Jim: But that was probably for atari.

Rich Stearns: It was for Atari. And we also did Frogger. We brought Frogger to the market.

Jim: Now see, that was way more successful than the star wars game Frogger was actually, frogger was huge. Okay. When we come back, we've got to talk about thriving cultures, because what you learned at Parker Brothers, then you went to Lenox and then you eventually went to worldvision.

I want to know what you learned from each one of those to create a thriving culture network. We're talking with Rich Stearns today on the Outcomes Conference Podcast, don't go away. There's a lot coming up.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town we'll lean in because here's a message from that kind of person.

The Awaken podcast network is the place to be. Go to awaken podcast, network.com and unlock God's purpose for your work. With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcasts that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today.

Go ahead. Check out Awaken podcast, network.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: And welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast, where your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Today, we're talking with Rich Stearns, the president emeritus of World Vision. You can check him out online because you don't know about them - worldvision.org, worldvision.org.

All right. Rich, you were the CEO of Parker Brothers. You brought Frogger to market. I think that's fantastic people that are our age are going to go. I love playing Frogger. I saw more frogs die on the screen. All right. Then you went to Lenox, China, Lenox, which makes China and crystal.

And then eventually to World Vision where you spent over 20 years of your career, what did you learn from each one of those experiences to how you were able to bring a thriving culture to your 20 years at world vision?

Rich Stearns: You know let me just start by talking a little bit about World Vision, because I learned a lot about thriving culture at World Vision.

World vision helps the poorest people on the planet. We work in a hundred countries with some of the poorest communities ever, and these are people that are not thriving. I mean, people who are trapped in poverty are, are not, are not thriving. And, but one thing we learned about helping people to thrive was what you have to do with poor people is help them see and realize, and then release their own God-given abilities and talents. You know, poor people aren't different from us. They're creative, they're, they're hard working. They're they're, you know, they're they like to have fun. They, they like laughter and fellowship and friendship, and they have all of the same abilities that, that we who have more opportunities have.

They just haven't had the opportunity to. Because of the environment they find themselves in. And so they often have low self-esteem because life has kind of beaten them down. You know, they, they feel like failures. So World Vision's whole strategy is to help restore the dignity of the poor and to help replace their hopelessness, their sense of hopelessness with a sense of hope.

And so we, we like to say, instead of giving handouts to the poor we like to give them a hand. We want to help them believe that they are made in the image of God and that they have been endowed with many gifts and talents and that if they can just release those gifts, they're there. They're going to be able to kind of beat the poverty that they're trapped within.

They're going to be able to solve the problems in their own community. And so we invest a number of years in a community helping them to realize their God given potential, you know, the worst thing that a charity can do. For the poor or to the poor is to reinforce the narrative that they're failures, who can't take care of themselves.

You know that's the narrative that's playing in their head that we, you know, we're failures. We can't do this. We're not smart enough. We're not good enough. And so that's the worst thing a charity can do is to reinforce that by just giving things to them, you know, you can't care for yourself, so here's some food you can't care for yourself.

So here's, you know, X, Y, or Z. And now obviously in a relief situation, when people are desperate or the refugees, you, you have to do some handouts, but ultimately you want to get them on the track of self-sufficiency. And so when World Vision leaves a community, after more than a decade of partners, Those community members are like brimming with hope and optimism because they have now become leaders in their own communities.

And they're solving their own problems. A woman might be running the water committee that manages the new water point. And you know, a man might be managing a farmers cooperative where, you know, he's with 25 other farmers working cooperatively to bring their crops to market, to get a better price.

All of a sudden, they believe in themselves again. And so just an amazing picture of what it means for human beings to thrive that I saw through the work of world.

Martha: You know, I just see such a huge connection between what you just explained and what we can do every day in the workplace that we are in. Right. We live, we work in cultures that where people may not be thriving, maybe the leadership isn't empowering people, the way that you just talked about with World Vision. You know, challenging us every day to help those around us, to, to reach their potential and to thrive what a great leadership thing that we can all take a look at.

So thank you for sharing that with us. So Rich, give us just a little bit of background. So people kind of know where you're at in your life right now. How long ago did you retire from your your, your time at world vision?

Rich Stearns: So I've been retired now just a little over two years. And so, you know, that's after kind of working for 44 years full time in, in the various companies you've already mentioned in 20 years, last 20 years at World Vision. So it's been about a little over two years that I've been retired.

Jim: So, but your, you as a president emeritus, you're still at board meetings, you're still involved in, in some of that advising role, isn't it?

Rich Stearns: Well, I'm not at board meetings, you know we, we, we decided it was best to make a clean break. We between myself and my successor and so that he can really be all that God's calling him to be at World Vision.

But I as president of emeritus, I, you know, I still do a little speaking on behalf of World Vision and, and I do a little executive coaching as well. But just Saturday night, my wife and I spoke to a virtual fundraiser a group of women. Portland Oregon area, you know, had a fundraiser for World Vision.

We, we have these groups around the country called women of vision who advocate and raise money for projects around the world. And so Renee and I were speakers at their, at their virtual banquet, if you will. It was a banquet without food, but it was, but it was a, it was a great meeting. I think they had close to 200 people on the call.

Jim: Yeah. If we, if we could just figure out the virtual food thing, I think that make the virtual environment a lot better. All right. So you, you retired, obviously you're not done working, but you retired and then we hit Covid. And the world changed. I would say it, you know, dramatically, drastically the world's changed drastically.

What was your greatest challenge heading into retirement, trying to see. Okay. God, what's next? What was your greatest challenge you face in these past 12 to 18 months?

Rich Stearns: Well, you know, first of all when COVID hit, I, I thanked my I thank the Lord and my lucky stars. I was no longer having to be a leader in the middle of this kind of catastrophic global event, because you know, the thing about COVID 19. And I don't know if I think people do understand this, but you know, there has never been an event that has affected every organization and leader on the planet. Simultaneously. The only thing you could point to might be the, the Noah flood. That affected the whole world. But when you think about human history, there, there's literally never been an event that affected every leader in the world simultaneously and presented those leaders with unbelievable challenges.

Right? So I don't care if you're the principal of a school or you're, you're, you're a pastor or you're a CEO of an organization, whatever your leadership responsibility was and is a, you were faced with some really, really difficult circumstances and decisions. And so. You know, as kind of watching this from the sidelines and doing a little bit of coaching of some other leaders there were a couple of things that I felt that leaders really needed to focus on during this.

And one was encouragement, right? So this is a very discouraging time. And, and you've got people who are working from home. They they're missing the fellowship. They normally have in the works. The ability to lift one another up and build relationships and those kinds of things in the workplace.

So they're working from home. They're feeling very disconnected probably from the work and the ministry, if it's a ministry. And so it's the leader's job to try to lift their spirits, to, to kind of encourage them, to help them. Maybe cast a vision for what it's going to be like, how we're going to get through this and what the light at the end of the tunnel looks like.

And to sustain that hope, to sustain hope and belief and, and to keep the fabric of the organization, you know, still functioning and together. So you know, encouragement, I write about this in my new book, that encouragement is like a wonder drug for a leader that when you, as a leader, Encourage and affirm the people that work for you.

It just works wonders. I mean, they, their self-esteem grows and they, they feel more confident and th that they'll actually work harder because, you know, you're, you're acknowledging their contributions and you're encouraging them. And you're, you're, you're talking to them about their giftedness and you know, what a good idea you had.

And boy, you're really creative and you know, so encouragement, especially in a time like this is important. And then the other thing. Culture building. Right? So one of the things I worry about for leaders is how do you create and sustain culture when you're not together, but

Jim: I want you to hold on to that thought you got to come to a break, but I want to, I want to, I want you to, I want you to hold on to that.

Cause then we really want to talk deeply about your book: Lead Like It Matters to God you're listening to the outcomes conference pod. With today, we've got Rich Stearns the president of emeritus of World Vision, online World Vision dot. We'll be right back with more of the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

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Welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Today we're talking with Rich Stearns as Martha and I are really intrigued by the conversation. We really want to get into your book that you just released Lead Like It Matters to God. But Rich, you were talking about culture right before we went to the break.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. So just in this whole context of thriving and being in an, in an environment where, in the culture where we can't be together, like we are used to, what do you have to say? Well, yeah, I think, you know, one of the chief responsibilities of a leader is to shape and create the culture of that, that their team works in.

So you could be a leader at various different levels in an organization. So whatever. Your team is you know, working where they're working. You're the, you're the culture, shaper and creator, and all know that leaders can create toxic cultures, negative cultures and they can create positive cultures in which people can thrive and flourish.

And so I write a fair amount about this in my new book that it's so important for leaders to create a culture of thriving now in COVID. That's harder to do because you know, you might have zoom meetings that you've got 20 people in. You're trying to make a decision, but what you miss is the day-to-day interpersonal react interactions with people.

Jim: Yeah. The water, the water cooler talk. You miss the water, the water cooler talk.

Rich Stearns: You know, about the, you know, what happened to the sports team over the weekend, or, you know, whatever. But I know the World Vision culture was, was a very powerful culture and strong culture. And, and again, to try to maintain that at a distance is challenging.

And so I think leaders have to come up with new techniques new kinds of gatherings, you know virtually where they can celebrate and, and deepen the culture of the organization and sustain it as well. And I also think that leaders during COVID. Need to break away from some of the group meetings, which can be very stifling they're necessary, but they can be very stifling and do more one-on-one sessions with their team because.

That personal attention between the leader and the lead is also very important in terms of building self-esteem and, and building their confidence and, and, and just, you know, communicating well and keeping short accounts and you know, with expectations. So I think those are a couple of things that people should be thinking about doing as long as the lockdown, you know, continues, which it still is in many companies.

Martha: So we want to, first of all, congratulate you for writing what is being honored as Christian Leadership Alliance, book of the year Lead Like It Matters to God and what a great title. And I want to get really kind of personal right at the beginning. And Rich, Stearns, as you were writing this book lead, like it matters to God. What was God showing you about your, your leadership?

Rich Stearns: It was an interesting process of writing the book and, you know, I've written several books before and sometimes I've described the process is when you write a book, it's like cleaning your attic. Right? So a lot of us, a lot of us put a lot of junk in the attic.

You know, we don't know what to do with this stuff. So we put it in the attic and, you know, we've out of sight out of mind. And every once in a while you know, you might go up there and say, I got to clean this attic out and straighten out in. And so ideas are the same way you, you have these ideas and experiences.

They're floating around your attic, right? They're they're up there, but they're not in a coherent form where they're not very organized. And so writing a book like this on leadership after 40 plus years as a leader in, in different organizations was a very cathartic process for me of cleaning my cleaning and organizing my attic and, you know, trying to distill the learning and the experiences of those 40 plus years into something that might be useful to other people, you know, ideas that might be useful to other people. And so what came out of that was this this notion of values driven leadership that, you know, the realization that, you know, when the Lord looks back at my life, he is not going to be impressed with, you know, 20 consecutive quarters of earnings growth at Lenox while we.

You know, the, the Frogger game that I introduced at Parker Brothers, you know, the Lord is going to be much more concerned about how I cared for the people under my leadership. The people in my circle, not just at work, but my family, my friends, my, my Bible study group by my church fellow church goers.

You know, those are the questions that God is going to be asking us, you know, on that day, are those are the things that he's going to be celebrating on that. And it's not going to be about our success. It's going to be, it's not going to be about all of our achievements. It's going to be about our faithfulness.

You know, I tell a story in the book of mother Teresa, who was once asked if she felt like a failure, because poverty in Calcutta was worse then than it was when she started her ministry there. And she said, this classic line, she said God did not call me to be successful. He called me to be faithful.

And so essence of this book on leadership is that as a leader, Don't drink the success Kool-Aid successes. Okay. It shouldn't be your goal though. I don't drink that. Kool-Aid be faithful. Be faithful. Be faithful. You might be successful as well. And you probably will be. If you're faithful to the Lord, you'll probably have success in other dimensions, but that's the essence of, the message of the book. And I write about these 17 values.

Jim: Okay. You got these 17 values, right? It's just what I was going to say. Thanks for great segue. As we talked with Rich Stearns, they were talking about his brand new book. That is the CLA book of the year Lead Like It Matters to God. You mentioned the 17 values in the book.

If you had to focus on the top three, maybe just give me the top two, what would they be?

Rich Stearns: Well, yeah. So if character is what matters, if our carrier Christian character, it is our witness. First of all, our character is our witness and our characters shapes the cultures in which we work and our values that we communicate to people shape what we work.

I wrote a chapter each on 17 different values that I think are important for Christian leaders to embrace. And so if I had to pick the top two or three, the first two are surrender and sacrifice. And when I was writing the book, my wife said, are you sure you want to write a leadership book where the first two chapters are surrender and sacrifice.

Who's going to read that book? Who's going to read chapter three after that, you know, and maybe you should start with, you know, success and wealth or fame or something like that because people read leadership. Typically because they want to be more successful, but so surrender to me, that's just so important for our Christian leader.

We, we, we enter our Christian faith by surrendering our lives. Lord, we surrender to the Lord, but as I said earlier, sometimes we compartmentalize and we don't fully surrender our career. Or there might be maybe it's our money. We don't fully surrender. The starting place for any Christian leader is to say, Lord, I am all in it.

My career is yours to do with, as you, please, my life has to do with what you please do as, as you plays and I am fully surrendered to you. And when you do that, it actually lets you release a lot of the stress and pressures of work because you've already given it to the Lord, right? It's like, well, it's your career Lord.

If, if you're going to let it shipwreck, that's okay. That's up to you. If you're going to help me become a CEO, that's okay. That's up to you as well, but it's, it's, it's, it's over to you because I'm just here to be obedient and to follow and to do the best I can. So I would say surrender is my number one value.

If you're not surrendered it makes it hard for the Lord to work through you and with you.

Jim: You said that sacrifice would be your number two. Give a real quick example. What sacrifice looks like before we get to the end of the podcast.

Rich Stearns: Well, well, when I surrendered my career and surrender, I say it's a daily process.

I mean, I think we have to almost daily surrender to the Lord. Again, it's not a one and done, but, so I tried to do that in my career to surrender to the Lord. And I had a few times, I, as you know, I got fired twice. I write about that in the book. And both of those times where the Lord showing me you're not surrendered enough.

No, you're not surrendered enough to me. And so finally, you know, after I had an 11 year run at Lenox and CEO and a lot of success. The Lord called me to World Vision and basically said, all right, if you're surrendered, I want you to quit your job. Quit your career. I had my Rich young ruler moment, right?

Sell everything you have and give it to the poor and come and follow me, and then you'll have treasure in heaven. And so that was a really difficult moment in my life. And my wife of course said, we need to go where God wants us to go. And. I quit my job. I quit my career. We took a 75% pay cut. We had five kids.

We moved from Pennsylvania to Seattle. And but that's what surrender meant for me at that moment that if I'm really surrendered, then I, I listened to the Lord and I'll follow him even if it seems costly and his promise to the Rich young ruler that you will have treasure in heaven. Those next 20 years for my work at World Vision.

Th they were a treasure, they were a treasure. I shutter to think if I turn that job down, I would have missed out on the greatest years of my life.

Martha: You know, and what's exciting is that there are 15 more in, in your list of 17 that we can learn from in your book, which I want to encourage everybody to listen or read is lead.

Like it matters to God and it's values driven leadership in a success driven world. So, thank you so much for sharing about your book and, and giving us a little peek into a couple of the topics.

Jim: Yes. Thank you to Rich Stearns from World Vision president emeritus of World Vision. Thank you. Rich Stearns for being on the outcome's conference podcast today.

Rich Stearns: Hey, thanks.

Jim: And to you, our Outcomes Conference Podcast listeners. Thanks for joining us today. We hope and pray that the podcast was an inspiration. You do. I doubt I don't doubt it at all. We're always looking to inspire you to a higher and deeper thinking and thriving for a greater kingdom impact. Be sure to visit Christian Leadership Alliance, where you can stay up to date by subscribing to the outcomes online newsletter and the Christian Leadership Alliance, higher thinking blog.

And if you're not already at Christian Leadership Alliance member, what are you waiting for? Join the Alliance today, Christian Leadership Alliance.org.

Martha: And remember the wisdom in this podcast came to you on its way to someone else. So if you loved it, say so and share it with a friend today.

Jim: Well, I'm Jim

Martha: I'm martha, we'll see you again for the next episode of the outcomes conference podcast.

Rich Stearns: Did you

Martha: know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field.

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