Jim Brangenberg: Did you know that when you retire, your calling doesn't retire? Your calling is a lifetime calling, and if you're still around God's not done with you yet. In fact, if you've got a pulse, you have a purpose. I know you're fully aware of what you retired from, but what did you retire to?

You've tuned in to iRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation, an organization dedicated to you, the retiree, who loves Jesus and wants purpose for all of your days, especially the ones ahead of you. Bruce Bruinsma joins us today as the founder of The Retirement Reformation, he's here to encourage you and walk with you through retirement. And I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. Check us out online. We invite you to check us out online: Retirement Reformation.org, and interact with us on Facebook under the same name, Retirement Reformation.

Seniors are lonely. Church pastors are lonely. Business leaders are lonely. All this loneliness and what can we do about it? Today we start a three part series about putting our retired selves into action to eliminate loneliness in our retired friends, our church pastors, and the local leaders of the business community and organizations. All this loneliness and the solution has been there all along: us. The retired Jesus- I'm going to say this right.

The retired Jesus following folks of America, the RJ FFA. We're here to establish that right now, the retired Jesus following folks of America, the RJ FFA here to the rescue! Bruce, with all this loneliness out there, it's no wonder the enemy loves shoving old people into retirement homes to get them out of the way and to keep them from solving community problems.

I can't believe we've had a solution all along.

Bruce Bruinsma: Often the solution is right in front of us, but but there's a, there's the the opposition to Jesus that would have us ignore those solutions and to therefore keep us from finding the meaning and purpose in our own lives as we help to find meaning and purpose and shove aside the yeah the screen of loneliness that is rampant in our society and one that is growing.

Jim Brangenberg: I don't know who came up with the idea at first, but you've been around a little longer than me. Who came up with the idea that we should put all the seniors in one group at church, or in a senior center, or in a local senior community center, to tell them to hang out with everybody that's just like them and, just get them out of the way? Who had that idea? It's a horrible idea.

Bruce Bruinsma: It is a horrible idea, however I don't know all the details of that, but I think there was a whole group one time and said, that came to the conclusion that when you are with like people, you will be happier, you will be better off, you will be so on.

And that when you are with people that are disparate from you, it brings challenges and problems. I think perhaps the expansion of the older people in our society, and the growth of the younger people in our society where we said, those two really don't go together very well, so let's separate them and hope they will. What a bad decision and we're reaping the the negative impact of that today.

Jim Brangenberg: Yeah, it really all started back in the 60s and 70s. I remember my grandmother going I'm going out to the senior center. I'm gonna hang out with all my friends. They would dance and they play cards and that was really when it began.

All right, but don't people over 65, quote unquote retirement age, don't they have something to offer to our society, Bruce?

Bruce Bruinsma: The assumption that they do not is the heart of the problem and the realization that they do is the beginning of the answer to the solution. And so we talked in the Retirement Reformation about you can see on the poster over my left hand shoulder. It's a little dated because it says there's only 40 million Christ followers. There's now up to 48 million Christ followers who in fact are not being part of the solution, but are being part of just maintaining what is there.

As a matter of fact I was just remembering and revisiting the U. S. Surgeon General's advisory on the healing effects of social connection. But the very stark name of that study, which you can find available online if you want to read it, is our epidemic of loneliness and isolation. So here's the U. S. Surgeon General saying we have an epidemic of loneliness and isolation and its negative impact on our health. But we know that it has negative impacts on lots of other things in addition to our health.

Jim Brangenberg: How old is that report, Bruce? That surgeon general report?

Bruce Bruinsma: 2023.

Jim Brangenberg: So it's very recent. And when you look at the plague on seniors, that covid was not only the disease itself, but also the loneliness, being isolated at home and away from church and away from Bible studies and away from family.

And if they were in a nursing home or in a senior community center, they were isolated from people within being isolated with people behind closed doors. There was a lot of isolation. Why are seniors lonely, Bruce? What do you think it is? What drives that isolation?

Bruce Bruinsma: Let me just read one of the part of a paragraph in the introduction to that study.

Jim Brangenberg: That'd be beautiful.

Bruce Bruinsma: Loneliness is far more than just a bad feeling. It harms both individual and societal health. It is associated with a greater risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, stroke, depression, anxiety, and premature death. Wow. The mortality impact of being socially disconnected is similar to that caused by smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day and even greater than that associated with obesity and physical inactivity. And the harmful consequences of a society that lacks social connection can be felt in our schools, workplaces, civic organizations, where performance, productivity, and engagement are diminished. And let me add in our churches and in our faith based communities.

Pretty sobering information coming from a secular source of our government that really speaks to the issues that we're about to address in the three series that we're doing on loneliness here in our podcast.

Jim Brangenberg: So we got seniors that are lonely, they miss their family, they got a lack of purpose, which definitely sucks the juice out of them, and they lose their spouses, some of them lose spouses, some of their friends are losing.

Because everybody gets older and I know that my parents struggle with this because they're now 90 and 91. And my dad said the other day, I don't know if anybody's be at my funeral because all my friends are gone. And it just gets lonely.

Bruce Bruinsma: I think a way to think about this in a broader sense is that in fact, as we age, our community of relationships continues to shrink unless we are intentional about expanding it or maintaining it.

People, as you mentioned, people do what happens. People die, people move away. People have other priorities that come into play. Kids are gone and are moved across the country. So every place we turn our world is shrinking. And here's the real key when we talk about loneliness and whether we're talking about with pastors or business people or friends, is that as our world shrinks, the natural force that happens is that we look inward and we continue to focus on us.

And I will tell you, if you focused on Bruce for a week and a half, you might be depressed also. And so as we focus on ourselves. The things that pop up that we focus on are not the things that bring us joy and pleasure, but they're the issues of life that are challenging to us.

Why is everybody gone? Why do I wake up with a backache every single morning? Why is the news so depressing? Why aren't people at church talking to me? Why is... why? And it just goes on and on. And that focus, the net result of that is in fact that loneliness and the epidemic that the report from the Surgeon General refers to.

Jim Brangenberg: Throughout this three part series, we're going to dig into the loneliness of not only seniors, which we've already dealt with in depth, but we're also gonna deal with the loneliness in pastors and how seniors can help and the loneliness in business people, which we think seniors can help as well.

We're going to talk to Phil Burks during our second segment of this show today, and then come back in the final segment and really talk about that loneliness of pastors and business people. You're listening to iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

 

 

Jim Brangenberg: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. Of course every second segment of every show we always bring in somebody who's living out their faith in their quote unquote retirement years. Bruce, who do you have for us today?

Bruce Bruinsma: Today we journey down to Tyler, Texas, and in a beautiful corner office with a gorgeous background. And every time I've been in Tyler, I've always been impressed because I always think of Texas as, flat. And Tyler is definitely not that in any shape, manner, or form.

At the Retirement Reformation, our goal is to awaken the 48 million Christ followers to be able to discover what it is that God is calling them to do during these years that we call retirement. But in fact are not, as we're called to be faithful for a lifetime. Our guest today is Phil Burks. Phil, we're so glad that you're here. And I'm anxious to hear the journey and the executive summary of the journey that God is taking you. And maybe where you are now and where, in fact, it's going over the next period of years. I think you've probably just passed your 39th birthday. (laughter)

Phil Burks: Very well put. Thanks, Bruce. It's my pleasure to be with you guys and I love what you're doing for the kingdom. This is exciting because there's so many people that get to this age and they go what now?

You've got Bob Buford who is from Tyler, Texas, who wrote Halftime, and in fact his office - I could throw a rock at it - was right through the woods from my office when he was very active. And let's talk about the word retirement. I actually don't use the word retirement. I use reassignment.

I think God has just has a different assignment for me right now. And we were talking with a bunch of missionaries that are here located in East Texas who are to use the air quotes, retired from being on the field. And we are putting together a support group for them. And for lack of a better term, we're calling it reassigned missionaries care ministry. Because again, like you said very well, we don't end. We just do different things. And to answer your question, Bruce, as best I can, the short story about my life is after I graduated from LaTourneau University - wearing the colors today - I felt very strongly called to be a full time missionary.

I hit all the altar calls, hit my knees, and I said, I'm your guy. First place I applied was Moody Broadcasting to be with their broadcasting program network throughout the world actually, and I flew to Washington state, did the interview, got the letter that says, Dear Phil, you're not our guy.

I went, what? I don't get that. Hey, I'm your guy. I spent two years being angry at God. Then I finally shut up long enough to hear him say, Phil, I'm calling you to send, not to go. Oh, you mean like R. G. Letourneau did? Yes. Like that. So I've spent a lifetime being an entrepreneur and using what God has loaned us through financial and intelligence and everything else to build a software company. It's a global software company. I am at retirement. I have a deal in place to - or resignment. I'm using my own word wrongly. All right - to be able to go off and do some other things.

What God's called me to at this section of my life, guys, is he's called me to take the mistakes that I've made, to take all of the learning that I've done throughout the years and he's allowed me to do, and put it into the young minds of young entrepreneurs. To tell them here's some thoughts. You're discouraged? You're allowed to be discouraged. Job was down, but he never quit and it's that message that I'm trying to pour into the younger minds as well as some guys and gals that are in their fifties who are feel stagnated.

They're just stuck in an area and they want to do something further with their life. And, God allows me the privilege of pouring it to them to give them some ideas of what they can do. So that's a real short Reader's Digest version of it.

Bruce Bruinsma: I love that. I love that, the journey that God has you on and it's a long ways from being done, but it is a it is an ongoing journey.

One of the things that we have learned and I would appreciate is that there are others who have similar experiences to yours that would love to hear your story and to be able to bring them together to be able to expand the geography, if you wish, of the messaging. The working with retired missionaries. God's blessed me to have, visited missionaries in 107 countries and to realize the challenges that they have when they are transitioning.

It's like pastors and you've seen them. So as we go, if you were to have one thought, Phil, for someone who is at a point of transition, what would be that thought that you would leave with them?

Phil Burks: First thing that hits me, Bruce, is don't stop. Pausing is okay, but don't stop. I have a very good friend who said he's got it planned out. He says, I am taking four months to spend time with my wife who I did not spend time with, and I'm going to take the first four months to do that because I neglected her for so long. And that's a whole other topic that we can all talk about in business. But he says, I'm going to do that.

We're going to travel the world. We're going to see, because I don't know what tomorrow, God's got for me for tomorrow. And then I'm going to do, and he's going to do something similar to what I'm doing. And mine is more organic guys. It's more as it comes up, I've got one of the black chairs that's right behind me is for lack of a better term a business counseling chair. I get a lot of these guys and gals that come in.

So I would say, pause is okay, but just don't quit. Because I've got a, I've got a retired missionary friend again, using the wrong R word there, named Bernie May. Bernie was head of Wycliffe. He was president of Wycliffe. He was president. He started seeing me. All right. And honestly, Bruce, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Bernie May and his family because his family and he introduced my mom and dad to each other at Marcus O. Baptist Church outside of Philadelphia. Thus the rest of the story, so to speak. But Bernie loves to tell a story, that he gets back and goes back out of the way and gets with God every 10 years.

What are you going to do this next 10 years of my life? God, what are you going to do the next year? God works in 10 year chunks with him and he is now 91, 92 years old and just started a beyond bees operation. So don't stop is my number one thing I would say.

Bruce Bruinsma: I think the reflection of that is that God never stops in his love for us and he never stops in the preparation that he has made and the plans that he had for us that started before time began. And that for us to be able to continue and so I just really, I'm encouraged by your story. And let me encourage you and what you're doing, And let's take a look at the Retirement Reformation and see if there's some things that perhaps we can do together.

There's only about 48 million of us that are in that Retirement age of say 60 to 104 and there's a lot of opportunities and needs. There's a lot of people that have stopped and need to hear the message of don't stop. Keep moving. And God has a plan. So Phil, just so such a pleasure to meet you.

And I'll look forward to some additional conversations and see if you can hold on to that corner office. That's a pretty nice deal there. Jim, any questions that you have in conclusion?

Jim Brangenberg: No, I love it, what you're saying, Phil, but I think I'd like to make a suggestion on your LinkedIn. You've got that R word in your LinkedIn profile. It says in the process of retirement, I'm thinking you need to change it to say in the process of reassignment. You're listening to iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

 

 

Jim Brangenberg: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. Great conversation with Phil Burks. Bruce, I want to jump back into the conversation about loneliness. So pastors, we hinted at it, pastors are lonely, but why are pastors lonely, Bruce? What are you hearing?

Bruce Bruinsma: Pastors are lonely because they have the opportunity for a judgmental congregation, holding them to standards which are impossible to meet and believing that they are, that they will not be hurt by the hurtful words that many in the congregation use. It's just really sad to both see that happen, to know that it does happen. So the issue of trust is a big one. Who in your congregation can you trust? To be able to be transparent, to be able to be real, to be able to look for advice, to do that. And I think as seniors we have a better opportunity to do that but we have to look deep in ourselves first to be able to understand what it is that's going to have to be and how it is that we're going to have to learn to keep our mouths shut when we're not in those conversations and how to be a trusted friend. And so I think for many pastors, it's hard for them to find a trusted friend.

And I was checking the other day to see what the longevity of pastors are at with a congregation and it's often less than five years. And so it's hard in that short period of time to find people you can trust and to do that. Now there is a pastor friend of mine that in the three churches that he's been in, in the last 30 plus years, in each one of those churches, he found a person that he could trust. And he still maintains relationships with them.

Jim Brangenberg: It's tough, because when pastors come into a new church, there's three groups. There's the group that gives all the money to the church, and they want, because they're giving the money, they want access to the pastor. There's the group that's never going to be happy with any pastor, because he's never going to be as good as the last pastor. And then there's a group that is not going to use their influence to become friends with the pastor, which they could probably be the best friends of the pastor anyway, but he's never going to meet them, because they're going to be quiet and wait for him. He has to find them the hard way. That trusting is so huge.

Bruce, business leaders - I mean because we're talking about how could seniors solve the problem of loneliness not only with themselves? I heard the story the other day by the way of a 95 year old guy who's been widowed for five years and He goes and visits the old folks homes to help his friends not be lonely and the friends that are much younger than him. I'm like, I don't like that.

It was here happening here locally Remember, we've got that if you remember we have a senior living community right here in town with about 200 people in it and this guy 95 jumps in his car - still driving - jumps in his car and goes and visits people. He's 95. I love that! But we're convinced, you and me, that seniors can solve the loneliness of other seniors. Also of pastors, we've talked a little bit about, that we're going to go deeper into that in the next podcast. But I have been working with business people all of my life.

You've been working with business people all of your life. Are business leaders and owners, are they lonely too?

Bruce Bruinsma: I think for some of the same reasons that pastors are and for some of the same reasons that seniors, but perhaps closer to the pastoral issue, because when you're leading a team in your business and you have employees, some of the issues that pastors face with the congregation are the very same issues that as a business leader, you are in fact faced with your staff and with the people that, that you've hired or that are there. As business leaders, we would expect loyalty and what we get is often greed. And so it's, what's in this job for me?

And so the coming together if the leader of the business organization has a vision, for example, and is not successful in implanting that vision and finding people that are on the same page, just like a congregation. In fact, you're going to have part of that working staff, which is going to be: that boss doesn't have any idea what he is, and he's just doing it for himself and all the negative comments you make about that, which helps shrink your world.

Then you're going to have the group that, that just wants to be your friend just because they think they're going to get a raise sooner or a promotion or whatever it may be. And then there's the folks that are just there for the job. And so when you're giving leadership to any organization, whether it be a church or whether it be a business, those issues are very real.

Matter of fact, coming out of graduate school, I remember in my one of my early jobs, I had a mentor, someone who I really respected their advice. And the advice that he gave me was, be careful who you confide in, be careful who you confide in. If you're careful in who you confide in, that means that the area where you're going to be able to find safety is going to probably be quite small and get smaller.

So that's one of the reasons why, again, like a pastor going to a pastoral retreat, and we'll have a guest here in our next interview or so that we'll talk about that, but being able to be part of a trade association where you can find some other people that you can trust to share your conversation because they don't have a vested interest in yours.

I did mention, I just wanted to put this in and then we can go on from there, but in the document from the surgeon general, there's one breakout piece that, it says, each of us can start now in our own lives by strengthening our connections and relationships, strengthening our connections and relationships, which take one of the words from the retirement manifesto is intentionality.

So I think that it starts to provide some kind of a context that we can navigate some of the answers to the questions that we're posing.

Jim Brangenberg: Bruce, let me just ask a personal question. You've been a business owner for decades. Did you ever get lonely?

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And the times when I can pinpoint the loneliness have two characteristics to them. The first characteristic was when I was in transition from one business area or activity to another. And where I knew what I was leaving and for a good way. And I had visions and aspirations for where I was going, but I hadn't gotten there yet.

And I didn't have anybody to talk to about it. The second circumstance where I felt loneliness is when I had not engaged Judy in my thinking and developmental process of making the changes that I was going to make. And so I didn't have her as a sounding board. I didn't have her and as a person who I could trust to give her best advice.

And it was like I was doing it myself and to all the circumstances where I was doing it myself and didn't have someone, in this case, Judy. I'll give you a third one for the business area and for the business owners or ex business owners that are listening. Clearly one of the, one of the sources of advice that we all need as business owners is a CPA and an attorney.

And so I had a hard time finding an attorney that I could have that relationship with, but CPA is not that way. Matter of fact, my long career, there have been two CPAs that have been more than people who did my tax returns, but they became friends and they understood the issues that I was facing with because I was transparent with them and we would have really good conversation.

They were both men who were Jesus followers and I could do two things. I could one number, I could trust their confidence. I could trust their wisdom. And I could trust their experience, and so as a business owner, those were really important to me.

Jim Brangenberg: So then imagine for me, because we're gonna pick this up in the next podcast, but imagine for me right now If you had a senior in your life, maybe somebody like you in your life when you were 50. How would that have been a help to you, somebody that was a former business guy retired business guy, pouring their life into you or just in through relationship? How would that have been a blessing to you?

Bruce Bruinsma: There are so many decisions in our relationships but then in our business activities of where the real situation that you're faced with does not reflect what Yogi Berra said: when you come to a fork in the road, take it. No, when you come to a fork in the road, there is a fork in the road. And each one of those decisions will take you down a different fork and they will be important. And so having someone in with experiential wisdom who reflects and wants to reflect God's principles and his priorities for our lives to be able to be of guidance and to put into the thought process that wisdom, would at all points in my life - and there were some men who did that- but more would be better.

Jim Brangenberg: Yeah. To have somebody that can go, Hey Bruce, I'm facing this fork in the road. Yeah. Absolutely. And Yogi Berra said, take it, but I don't know where to take. Can you help me think this through?

And somebody that's been there, done that can say if you take this fork, this is where it's going to lead you. Or you take this fork, this is where it's going to lead you. I had a friend yesterday I was talking into, and I said, if you take this fork, it's going to destroy everything you've worked on for the last 20 years.

He's like, how do you know? I'm like, cause I've seen it. I've seen it. I can prove it to you. And having that kind of wisdom available to you. And this guy's 20 years, my junior. I'm like, just trust me. Because if you make this decision, you'll regret it for the rest of your life.

Bruce Bruinsma: In one of our other podcasts, I shared my, one of those, one of my key transition points, my spiritual journey. And the net result of that was to put a focus on wanting to acquire, embrace, and learn from every experience to gain greater wisdom. And so here at 82, I'm still looking for more.

Jim Brangenberg: Great conversation, laying it up. Pastors are lonely. Business leaders are lonely. Seniors are lonely. You seniors listening, you guys are the solution.

You're listening to iRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation. Bruce Bruinsma has been here sharing his wisdom as the founder of the Retirement Reformation and I'm Jim Brangenberg. We're Christ followers journeying from retirement to reformation. So ultimately we can end our day and say, iRetire4Him.