Jim Brangenberg: Did you know that when you retire, your calling doesn't retire? Your calling is a lifetime calling, and if you're still around, God isn't done with you yet. I know you're fully aware of what you retired from, but what did you retire to? You've tuned in to iRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation. 

An organization dedicated to you, the retiree who loves Jesus, but wants purpose for all of your days, especially the ones ahead of you. Bruce Bruinsma joins us today. As the founder of the Retirement Reformation, he's here to encourage and walk with you through retirement. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. We invite you to check us out online, retirementreformation. org.  

Three major event offerings come from the Retirement Reformation. The Recreating Retirement Small Group Study, the Oxygen for Life weekend events, and the Retirement Voices afternoon and evening events. All three are designed to further the conversation of living out our faith with intentionality in our retirement years. 

Today we're going to focus our conversation on the Recreating Retirement Small Group Study as well as touching our upcoming - it's super exciting - trips to Belize and Tanzania. Lots to talk about! Bruce, welcome back to iRetire4Him.  

Bruce Bruinsma: Jim, it's always good to be with you and with our audience to, you know, to bring either new perspective or new information and to be an encouragement to all of those Christ followers that deep down in their hearts are looking for meaning and purpose  

Jim Brangenberg: So Bruce, why did you guys and your team, why did you create the Recreating Retirement small group study?  

Bruce Bruinsma: One of the things that we've learned, Jim, and it's been a fascinating journey over the last number of years, but I, we never stopped learning, but that so many individuals or couples that when they came to the point of what I call the aha moment, like, aha, there probably is more. 

God really has prepared me for something, but I have no idea what it is. And so when we heard that often enough, and whether it be someone in that, that early, transition from career to the first stage of retirement or in that first stage to the second or to the third stage in these different stages. And so I don't know what to do. 

So we said we need to put together a curriculum that in fact a small a group of people can come together with a facilitator and they can walk through all of the steps of how God has prepared them for what's next. So the reason why we created the small group study which we call Recreating Retirement is to answer the question or help people to answer the question of what's next, regardless of which stage of retirement they're going to move in. And so it's a, it's a fascinating process. The thing that's kind of fun about it is that when you do it in a small group that you'd be able to learn from each other. But the net result at the end of the day is that you will have a unique plan for what's next. Or you, individually, while you learn together as a group.  

Jim Brangenberg: So Bruce, I'm assuming this is for, this is for retirees, obviously, but it could also be for people in their 50s as they're contemplating what does retirement look like. 

But is this to be held in a church, or is it in a rec center? I mean, does a church have to be involved, or can it just be community based? Could it be done in my living room if I wanted it to be?  

Bruce Bruinsma: Any place where 5 to 12 people can gather is a place where this can happen. Now, does it make sense to do it within the context of a church? Maybe part of a Sunday school class or a life group or a part of a life group? That works fine, but it can be done in a community center. It can be done with neighbors in your community at your house. All it takes is a willing facilitator. And then we provide the material so you don't have to be an expert in order to lead it. 

But in fact, you just need to be a good facilitator to help people work through the 10 sessions that it takes. Now, those 10 sessions, Jim, they can be 10 weeks, could be 10 days. Or it all could be done in two and a half days of very intensive time. So, it's got flexibility like an accordion.  

Jim Brangenberg: So, when you see people go through this study the impact - what will we experience? If we go through, if I decide to go through this - I'm 57, so I'm not too young to go through this. If I'm 57, what will I experience when I go through this? What what are some of the things that I'm gonna be challenged upon?  

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, first of all it'll be an understanding of how God views this 30 to 40 year stage of life. And so to be able to understand that, not as our culture does, but based upon his word and what he's done. 

One of the most interesting one is in one of the early sessions where we talk about, you know, when did God's plan for your life germinate? When did it start? When did it begin? And when we look at and search through scripture together, for so many people, it's amazed that God's plan for my life started before time began. 

Which is just how, how do I get my head around that? You can't. But what happens when people hear that and start to grapple with that a little bit is, oh my goodness. This isn't something that started when I was 55 or 60 years old. This started long before, and then everything that is in between was preparation for what's next. 

And now to understand what that preparation looks like, to be able to identify it, put words on it, and to be able to connect with it, so you have a new understanding how God sees you and how he created you. And so there are so many benefits that go beyond - just what's next in building our relationship with God and seeing how he loves us, how he sees us, how he prepares us, and how he wants us to be, to be the best representative of him that we can possibly be.  

Jim Brangenberg: So you've had a lot of churches go through this. A lot of small groups go through this across the country. What do you hear when people are done six months later after they've gone through the study? What are you hearing? What what are people saying about the impact that this study is made on their lives? 

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, it's got a variety of impact. Some of it appears fairly small in that, you know, a person says, well, what's next for me is fill in the blank. It may be spending more time with my grandchildren. It may be taking on a responsible role at church. It may be being Christ's example to my neighbors. It may be reaching out to Grumpy Mildred, who lives three houses down, or it may be a trip to Africa or Asia or Europe to be able to see what God is doing there and lend your hands to it. 

There have also been changes in stewardship. And understanding how, how managing your resources in God's way is an important part of you becoming who it is that he planned you to be and what he planned for you to do.  

Jim Brangenberg: So are you glad you spent the time building this study?  

Bruce Bruinsma: Oh, absolutely. I tell you what. It probably has the greatest impact in numbers of participants of people in that, you know, let's say 55 or 60 to 70 who are in that career transition. But I'll tell you the ones that really warm my heart is the 90 year olds who are going, I really thought there was nothing more for me, but just to live until I die and to find out that that's not true. That just really, it really gets me.  

Jim Brangenberg: Yeah. I love it. When we come back, we're going to hear from Cindy King from the Keystone Family Alliance. She's going to talk about one of those things that we can all get involved in, which is wraparound grandparenting. Something that you call legacy of love on the Retirement Reformation website, but something we can all get involved in, in order to help bring healing to the foster care system. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.  

Jim Brangenberg: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we do in every second segment, we always bring on a special guest. Well, Bruce brings out a special guest in order for us to capture what they're doing that has to do with the stuff that we're doing. And today I have a feeling Bruce, you might be going into the conversation of wraparound grandparenting. 

Bruce, who do you have today?  

Bruce Bruinsma: I'd like to introduce our audience to Cindy King and Cindy, we're just so glad that you're on. As Jim mentioned in our prior conversation, we've been trying to do this for a long time. So welcome. We're so glad that you're here.  

Cindy King: Thank you. I'm so glad I can be here. 

Bruce Bruinsma: Good. So let's, let's talk about what's the pathway that God has taken to bring you to this point in your career and the impact that you're having. So give us just a quick shot of the journey that God has got you on to put you to where you are and then we'll go from there.  

Cindy King: Alright, a quick shot is not always an easy thing to do. So, I started out in education. I was a first grade teacher. I loved it, but always knew I wanted to be a foster or adoptive parent. When my husband and I were first dating and I brought up that topic, it was not something he was interested in. Not something he had ever thought of doing. But, he graduated with a bachelor's in psychology and there's not a whole lot you can do with that until you have a master's, except case work. 

So God was bringing him around to that idea also. So we have been foster parents off and on for the last 30 years, which definitely brought us into this fostering realm. Brought me into more than that in that I ended up getting my master's in human services counseling, mostly so that I could help support foster families, adoptive families, once they were in the challenging messiness of raising children who had experienced trauma and helping them understand why their children had the behaviors they did and best practices in parenting those children.  

Bruce Bruinsma: As you take a look at the experiences that you have and are able to look out over the landscape of the culture that we all live in, how would you describe the current state of affairs in the needs of children that have trauma and foster parents to become available? 

And then perhaps we can then talk about some wraparound grandparenting ways to be able to support them. So how do you see the landscape of fostering now from the chair that God's got you sitting in?  

Cindy King: The foster care system is a mess, and I think everybody knows that, even those working in it. The government was never meant to be a parent, and the government makes an awful parent. 

But it's the system that we have, mostly because the church gave up its own responsibility, which was to care for orphans and widows, and this was our job from the beginning. And I believe history tells us that we actually invited the government in to help us with that, and here's where we are. So it's a mess within the system. 

It's a mess in how we prepare people to be foster parents. It's a mess in that we don't have enough people to be foster parents. And so we have children in Pennsylvania here. We have children sleeping in CYS offices because they don't have enough homes in which to place the children. Or they're even getting hotel rooms and caseworkers are sleeping there with the kids for a few nights until they find homes. 

Putting teenagers in juvenile detention centers because they don't have placements for them, not because they need to be there. So it's a mess. And we as God's people need to be stepping up to care for children. But then we can't just say that everyone needs to be a foster parent because I don't believe that everyone is designed to be a foster parent, but we are all called to do something and so I am totally committed to helping bring what we here in Pennsylvania call care communities around each foster family, adoptive family, kinship family to support them. It's a structured community of support and prayer.  

Bruce Bruinsma: Oh, well, you know, as God has led Elliot and myself and Jim to understanding some of the things that you talked about. Judy and I were foster parents for 10 years. And so we kind of get it. And, and being a foster parent is really hard when you're dealing with traumas that you may not be familiar with, you may not know how to handle, you may not know what to do. 

And so, is it accurate that we see many, many couples that step into the fostering role. Within six to nine months later, then they step back out of it because it's too hard and they don't have the support that they had hoped would come perhaps from the church, and it's not there.  

Cindy King: That is so true. So statistically, 50 percent of foster families are going to quit before the first year. 90 percent are going to quit before the second year. And we need to keep continuity for these kids. It is a lonesome, isolating place to be. And I think the fault lies in every party. I think that part of it goes to caseworkers in that we don't have adequate trainings, and so we don't know what we're getting into. 

I don't think we can ever completely prepare someone, but I do think we can do a better job with our trauma trainings. I also think foster parents are at fault because we tend to not ask for help until it's too late. So we've reached that breaking point. We feel like God called me to do this. I should be able. I, I should be able to do it instead of God has probably given me a community and I need to reach out. 

But then I think it's also the fault of the church that oftentimes looks at foster families kind of as a, wow, that's great that God gave you that calling. I could never do what you're doing. Period. And there's no more conversation about how could I really help you and support you. 

So I think by having what, what we provide in a care community, part of that is teaching the foster family to say yes to the help. And part of that is educating the church and helping them understand why a foster family needs support. And why foster parenting is different from regular parenting.  

Bruce Bruinsma: And the fact that within the body of the church, there is the capacity and the variety of skills and talents and experiences that when they come together in a team can be supportive of a foster parent. 

But nobody, nobody really talks about that or says that that is true. I was chatting with someone earlier today and we were talking about that in a team, there isn't an ideal mix. There's just the variety of skills and talents. And maybe there's five families that come together to be supportive, and one of them could be 55, just entering into retirement. 

They play tennis every day, and they can be part of that team. Part of that team can also be a 94 year old person in a wheelchair that they bring something to that. Talk a little bit about some of the roles and the ways that a wraparound grandparenting team can come alongside a parent because there's a whole variety of things. 

And I think people are, are unaware of A, the need or B, the capacity and, and what is, what can happen. So talk just a little bit about some of those support mechanisms.  

Cindy King: That is so true. Everybody has a role to play. So in the structured communities that we create, there are certain roles that every team has. 

There's a team leader who's going to check in with the foster family. There's somebody providing child care. Somebody providing mentoring. Somebody bringing one meal every week. Certainly, there is no age limit on any of those roles, but beyond that, I've seen some real unique things and I say every team is as unique as the foster family they're serving and the people on the team. 

So I like to ask the question, what is in your hands already? If you are not someone that likes to bake, I'm not going to ask you to bring a meal. If you're not someone that likes to mentor a child who needs homework help, I'm not going to ask you to do that. What do you already like to do? What are you already good at? 

So I've seen team members who have a specific skill. And the foster child might be interested in that particular skill. What a great relationship. I've had some where they're really good at encouraging. So they can write encouraging notes to the foster parents. Just, you know, I'm thinking of you, I'm praying for you, I'm here for you. 

I've seen some really neat, not necessarily in wraparound care, but a church recently was having a drive. They were donating backpacks and blankets to an agency that gives them to foster children. And so, some of the older women in their senior group helped younger members of the church do the no sew fleece blankets where they knotted them together. 

So, how neat that they were teaching a skill, but also supporting vulnerable children in the process. So, I think there are so many things you can do. You can rock a baby. You can drop off a meal and take a basket of laundry home with you and fold it at home and bring it back tomorrow. There are so many ways that people can serve. 

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, I think the, the understatement is that there is such a huge variety of needs and there is that same huge variety of capacities to be able to serve those needs within the body of Christ. And so as we understand that and step into that I, I think we can obviously make a difference. 

Retirement Reformation speaks to 48 million Christ followers who are in the retirement age, 55 and older, the majority of whom are actually doing nothing. And so to be able to introduce them and say, not everybody can do the same thing but everybody can do something. Cindy, you and I could have a conversation for the next hour and a half. 

So I appreciate, I appreciate your smile. I appreciate your passion. Appreciate the information that you've shared. And we look forward to doing more of that. And when you come to retirementreformation. org then you can find wraparound grandparenting. We're calling it the legacy of love. And so we look forward to learning some things from you and partnering with you as we reach out to see if we can make a difference, and we will make a difference in this huge area of need. 

So Cindy, thank you so much for being with us today. We appreciate you. God loves you and so do we.  

Cindy King: Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. 

Jim Brangenberg: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.  

Jim Brangenberg: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. Wow. What a great conversation with Cindy King. I would encourage all of you to check out the Retirement Reformation website, click on the legacy of love tab and find out how you can start a wraparound grandparenting program in your Local community, in your local church, in your local bible study, in your local group of friends. It is such a desperate need but it was fun conversation though. 

Bruce. I thought it would be kind of fun - you got some pretty exciting trips coming up in the next couple of, well, several months. One to Belize in April and then one to Tanzania in May. So, talk to me about these trips and what you actually have in store for Retirement Reformation guests.  

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, when I made a transition at the beginning of this year, I stepped down as CEO of Envoy Financial and, and began to put all of my efforts here. 

I realized that I probably needed a transition period. And so a liminal period of going from one stage to the next and being able to think through that and for Judy and I be able to talk through. So one of the things we did was we took a week safari in Tanzania, and I was absolutely blown away. A number of things. 

First of all, how God led us to a guide that was that was Christian and just special. So we were able to really experience the amazing things that God has done in his, you know, whether you're looking at a giraffe or an elephant or whatever it may be, or one of 1500 birds. That was just amazing. But as Judy and I would sit in the lodge at night and have dinner, I'd say, you know, what a wonderful place to be able to reflect on what God is saying to us and what's next in our life. 

I said, wouldn't it be fantastic if we could bring a group together to come to Tanzania? Spend seven or eight days together, and have both of those opportunities, an opportunity to experience the messaging and the challenges of the Retirement Reformation to, to prompt the conversations that will lead to what next, while we're able also to be able to experience the amazing things that God has done in his nature with his animals and in the, in the, in the unbelievable sites that there are to see on the Serengeti in in Tanzania? And we were driving along in the Range Rover and our guide said, Bruce look over there. 

And there was a big cloud of dust that was moving. Well, it, it was 500 wildebeests. And 500 wildebeests were coming across the Serengeti. And they crossed the road right in front of us. And to see those beautiful animals and how they were all together. And to think, you know, in some ways, that's a vision of the church. 

The church ought to be together, going in a direction that God has planned for us. And to be able to do that together, because we each bring unique talents and gifts to it. So I just thought, wouldn't it be fantastic to be able to bring a group of people together to have those conversations and that experience? So that's that's our time in Tanzania  

Jim Brangenberg: So that's May 11th through the 19th. Is that when the trip actually starts? Are you leaving the States on the 11th of May?  

Bruce Bruinsma: Actually we're gonna leave on the 10th, and we've extended it for a couple of days. So it's gonna be tell the from the 10th to the 21st of May.  

Jim Brangenberg: Okay. And about what kind of costs can people expect? I mean, I know coming from different parts of the states, the flight costs could be a little bit different, but about what, what can people expect? 

Bruce Bruinsma: Our expenses for the time on the ground from the time that we hit Mount Kilimanjaro airport. Doesn't that sound cool all by itself? I'm going to land in Mount Kilimanjaro airport. Well, that's where we're going to land. But at any rate, from that point until we get back on the plane in Mount Kilimanjaro airport to either come home or to extend the trip to go wherever else you might like to go is 3, 500 a person. That covers all the expenses. All the guides, lodging, meals, food, the time that we'll spend in a native village, the time that we're going to spend in a school with some kids, the teaching and the communication that we have, and then for every four people, they will have a Christian guide, a Range Rover, to be able to really experience the beauty and the power of, of what God has created there. 

Jim Brangenberg: Now, they don't get to take the Range Rover home, right? That's going to get left in Africa.  

Bruce Bruinsma: That does get left in africa.  

Jim Brangenberg: That price is not a clue to range rover. Okay. All right. Now that's may 10th through 21st. Tanzania. Go right along to retirementreformation. org /Safari and find out more details about that, a chance to see a part of really untouched continent on this planet and also to really stretch your faith at the same time, hanging out with other people who want to do the same thing. Bruce, you've got another twist on this. You're going to Belize in April, the 14th to the 20th. Talk to us about this. Why are you taking Retirement Reformation folks to belize?  

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, we're partnering with a ministry partner of ours and they have an active ministry in Belize. We're feeding kids. And there's a farm. And there's kids. And there's feeding. And there's an opportunity to be able to work with them and kind of like a vacation day Bible school kind of an environment. 

And so this is a hands on event. This is not - I'm sure we will learn from each other and for each other and we'll have opportunities for conversation - but this is for the person says, you know, I'd like to have a hands on experience of what does it mean to be able to bring Christ to children in the beautiful country of Belize? 

And so that's the environment where we are there. And the ministry that we're partnering with is called Propel Global. And we'll have an opportunity to interview the leaders of Propel Global and so that our audience will have a better understanding of what it is that ministry does. 

But I just love the, the heart that they bring, the ministry that they bring. And one of the key things that they do is that, if in fact you might believe that you're called to some kind of a mission role in this latter part of your life, they have the resources that you can connect with them and they can help guide you as to what that would really look like. Where would your talents and gifts most effectively play out? And so one of the places we're going to go look at where they are working is in Belize.  

Jim Brangenberg: What is your hope that, the biggest takeaway you're hoping that people will get when they attend the Belize trip with you? 

Bruce Bruinsma: Number one is that they will get = the, an affirmation of their relationship with Jesus and the chance to grow spiritually. Secondly, that they will have a comfort level and a confidence that in fact God has something more for them. Whether it's being a missionary to Belize. Or whether, whatever else it may be, but that they know that they know that they know that there's something more. 

Jim Brangenberg: But you got a week full of fun and challenging time together in Belize as a, as a team. How much will that trip cost per person? 

Bruce Bruinsma: That, that trip, if I remember correctly, I think is 1, 500. Well, 1, 550 per person and that includes all of the expenses in country, in Belize. To that you'll have to add your travel to be able to get there and home. Also, it's a wonderful jumping off point if you have other places in South America that you want to go see or do or experience, it's a wonderful jumping off place to spend that week in Belize and then to be able to go whatever's next on on your bucket list. 

Jim Brangenberg: Yeah, we invite you to check that trip out at Retirement Reformation dot org/ compelled Retirement Reformation dot org / compelled. We'd love for you to come along with us to Tanzania for an incredible experience, safari experience, and just a deep spiritual experience in Africa, or come to Belize with us to really get a different perspective on South America, but also how God can use you in those retirement years. 

Go Retirement Reformation. org either slash safari or slash compelled. Bruce, got a lot of exciting stuff coming up this spring.  

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, we do. Matter of fact, I was talking to a lady yesterday about the Belize trip and she said, Do you think if I brought puppets along that would be okay? And I went, if you don't bring your puppets along, I'm going to be really be upset. 

And so past experiences to be able to apply it in this kind of a circumstance, I just thought that was really cool. So we're going to have puppets in Belize.  

Jim Brangenberg: Bruce, it's exciting. And listeners, we invite you to check us out, check out those trips, go to retirementreformation. O R G and check out those trips. 

You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation with your host Jim Brangenberg and of course, Retirement Reformation's very own founder, Bruce Brinesma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation so we can ultimately say, iRetire4Him.